Why I'm not buying Fearless Defenders, and why I'm encouraging you to do the same.

[Rheged]

So the OP want you to boycott this book cause misty has her ass sticking out in a pose that a lot of real life women can do????

EDIT: The snark and just face palming.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

So the OP want you to boycott this book cause misty has her ass sticking out in a pose that a lot of real life women can do????

I actually talked to the OP on Tumblr, and she says she's been talking to Will Sliney. I think OP is getting to a point of understanding now.

[Rheged]

im all out of sensitivity for non issues

im more concerned with our mainstream popular cultures sexualization of adolescents then i am sexulaization of drawn fictional characters in unrealistic situations standing in less then realistic positions

im more concerned with and sensitive to womans rights in other cultures that dont treat woman as equal to men

im speaking about this specific image.. in this specific instance.. sure there are places where stylization goes to far

That wasn't what you said before, but whatever. It also applies to THIS image. No, it's not blatant or intentional, IMO, and the OP's reaction to it is more than I would expend, because sadly, I'm used to the grand steaming pile of objectification of women in comics. And it's certainly NOT something that is going to stop me from buying this book and supporting it, since there's so much more about it that's woman friendly (and I like the writer and the characters). Personally, I think the OP is cutting her nose off to spite her face, but I at least understand why she's upset / annoyed.

no you are not. but lets flip this around... can there be a disscussion on sex with out a mans prespective? are woman the only ones fit to consider and have open disscusions about a issue.

That was sarcasm aimed at what you had already posted. We aren't talking about sex. We're talking about men sexualizing and objectifying women -- that IS the male perspective (and yes, I'm speaking broadly, as there are men who grasp the issue). And a _discussion_ sort of ends, when men start out by telling women whatever they are concerned about is a 'non-issue,' they've got more important 'real' issues to be concerned with.

sometimes you assume to much about other people. im a feminist at heart.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm responding to your posts which, frankly, are anything but feminist and you yourself admit are insensitive.

[Time_to_Zap]

This for example.

The awkward thing is that this Spider-Man is a thirteen-year-old boy.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

The awkward thing is that this Spider-Man is a thirteen-year-old boy.

And some people think Miles is gay.

[NinjaMic]

People here need to read the Sixth Gun.

Even if it's good, thats 1 good book out of a sea of mediocre.

[Deep_Sleeper]

Man...the only way that image could have been better is if she was fighting in a thong!

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Even if it's good, thats 1 good book out of a sea of mediocre.

Fear Itself the Deep and Fearless.

I think Bunn works better when he's able to start the book and not being handed the pass from a previous writer.

[StoneGold]

I am disappointed in this thread. I was expecting an image more like this.

[lcg16]

Male power fantasies =/= sexualization of men. Having men be all hulking, muscled and rippling is not an attempt to sexualize men, it's an example of masculinity and strength and POWER (which, frankly, is the basis for the entire genre of superhero comics) and it almost never reduces them to the sum of their body parts. The T and A shot is just overt sexualization and fanservice, because there are ways to properly portray beautiful sexy women who're desirable that DOESN'T break them down into a collection of breasts and butts.

There are like... two men in comics that are overly sexualized within comics atm. Gambit in his Solo(which is clear fanservice, in all the shower scenes) and imo Namor (who's just always drop dead sexy and has had a few shower scenes of his own in his day). So, no, it's really not comparable, and yes, it really is an issue even though you don't want to believe it is.

That being said, I'm totally still buying the book. The 'back-breaker' is stupid, but I can deal with one panel or even a couple. If the books are continually drawn in ridiculous fashions then I might bail - but there's no way I'm going to NOT support this at least at first.

EDIT: Here's a great illustration of the POWER FANTASY-V-SEXUALIZATION courtesy of David Willis at www.shortpacked.com

Male power fantasies =/= sexualization of men?

Untruth. Masculinity is a gender that has traditionally been defined (by men) by access to power (which is also a concept defined by men as being muscular). The Male Power Fantasy IS the sexualization of men BY MEN. Hell, it's THE ONLY WAY to do it, as long as one identifies with heterosexual male gender. Drawing them in a womanesque fashion, like your comic example did, is a FEMINIZATION of men, a variant of sexualization that can be conducted by someone who identifies with the heterosexual female gender. It is how a "Woman" would sexualize a "Man".

Sexualization is emphasizing the socially constructed expectations of the gender, whether (for men) it's the concept of power and muscularity for heterosexual males, or the concept of beauty and vulnerability for heterosexual females or...whatever else it is for other genders. (It's kinda confusing to even speak of sexualization, since sex is usually meant to refer to the biological physical form, while gender is used for social constructions and depictions...)

To reject the male power fantasy as an issue that isn't as important as T&A poses is exactly why complaints about T&A poses get looked down upon in general community. Everyone is expected to comply with a certain social construction, and if you don't like it...putting one aspect of that social construction as being more important than any other only makes one's complaints seem petty and exceptionalist.

The T&A pose is wrong, but to say it's wrong purely because it's men taking advantage of woman misses the mark.

And my real issue with this thread is the idea of a boycott to protest this. (And not just because this book performing poorly might just mean my favourite character Valkyrie getting shelved again into Marvel's dustbin for a decade...) The boycott is one of the least effective means of protest. You need high powered organization. It needs to be elite driven, otherwise it will never catch traction. The right way to do this is as what Songbird has said the OP is doing. The artist isn't some Wizard of Oz that's going to magically know what he's doing that's affecting sales! This is the internet age. TELL THEM!

[Frank]

Looks like a Rob Liefeld drawing.

[satchmo the dragon]

Everyone has sex on the brain. Comic book art is just exagerrated and unrealistic.

[satchmo the dragon]

Male power fnt of sexualization that can be conducted by someone who identifies with the heterosexual female gender. It is how a "Woman" would a "Man".


To reject the male power fantasy as an issue that isn't as important as T&A poses is exactly why complaints about T&A poses get looked down upon in general community. Everyone is expected to comply with a certain social construction, and if you don't like it...putting one aspect of that social construction as being more important than any other only makes one's complaints seem petty and exceptionalist.

The T&A pose is wrong, but to say it's wrong purely because it's men taking advantage of woman misses the mark.

And my real issue with this thread is the idea of a boycott to protest this. (And not just because this book performing poorly might just mean my favourite character Valkyrie getting shelved again into Marvel's dustbin for a decade...) The boycott is one of the least effective means of protest. You need high powered organization. It needs to be elite driven, otherwise it will never catch traction. The right way to do this is as what Songbird has said the OP is doing. The artist isn't some Wizard of Oz that's going to magically know what he's doing that's affecting sales! This is the internet age. TELL THEM!

Announcing a boycott on the top comic book website is probably the best way to get change actually. Not that itd suceed but marvel watches this forum closely for trends. This is also a good way to organize such a boycott to make it succesful. And the artist would ignore one angry message from a fan but will notice a big thread attacking his work. Its already going viral.

No one was going to buy this comic anyway though. Its like boycotting new coke.

[thirdfalcon]

DAT BUNDUNKADUNK!!!

wasn't buying but will now for sexy black woman ass

[lcg16]

Boycotting New Coke? >_> If this thing sells as well as a new coke product, I think I'm happy, lol. Coz hell, those sell pretty well, afaik. =P

It's hard not to be pessimistic when a lot of people keep pointing out the trends and all. But eh...if indy comics can make some money, I don't see why an off-beat team like this can't. I just hope folks will at least give it a try, heh. =3