BATMAN INCORPORATED #5 Preview/Discussion/Spoilers

[ElMacho]

Again, we comic readers have to pretend to think that Batman might die (that Talia & Leviathan stand a real chance at killing Bruce). Like with every story. Lots of villains' plans have hinged on Batman dying, but, that rascal, he never does.

Joker's plan in The Death of the Family can then be forgotten because Joker won't win, the black glove (Batman) always wins. But that's not how it works in reading & enjoying comics.

I think if all Joker wanted in DOTF was to kill Bruce, he would have done it already, especially in the last issue where he had him tied up on the bridge.

Back in Inc vol.1, I thought that Netz's attempt to kill Batman was absolutely great to read, of course he was never going to succeed, but it didn't affect the enjoyment of watching his plan unfold, and as readers we also didn't know what consequences were going to spill out of his plot. If he had a great plan that could only begin AFTER Bruce's death, in a main continuity comic, then as a reader, I wouldn't care less. I prefer to think that Dr.Hurt/Darkseid doesn't have to wait for Bruce to die, to begin that phase of his plan (creating his own Batman in order to shape the world as he sees fit), that's my own personal opinion. Again, if there is absolutely no chance that the deal could have happened in #666 before Bruce's death, prove it.

can anyone actually prove definitively if Damian's deal with Hurt in the 666 timeline was made before or after Bruce's death?.

**EDIT**
Yes, I do realize that Darkseid has attempted to "create Batmen" already, but it didn't work out very well, and Damian as an immortal unintentional tool of Darkseid's is surely the most effective iteration of that plot that we've seen to date, perhaps another Robin (such as Jason Todd) would also work in that role......

[ElMacho]

Maybe the Bruce she slept with wasn't him, but was another form of the adapter passing through time? !!!

I can't really see this one being correct, but I have to say that it's an awesome concept all the same!, mind=blown.

Well all the Morrison talk is fine and dandy, I think it would be remiss not to mention how very, very good Chris Burnham is. One of the biggest flaws in Morrison's bat-epic in my mind is that it's been so artistically inconsistent.

The inconsistent art is the main reason that I (probably) won't buy Absolute B&R, honestly if Quietly had drawn the whole run I'd snap it up in a heartbeat. Thank god Burnham stepped in, I've never been disappointed with one of his issues.

More than that ... ignoring the symbolic value and the full circle nature (and my recent essay basically pointed directly to the fact that the 666 future HAD to be revisited a third time. The numerology of three, the third Six. The password to the end has been input.) revisiting the 666 future, just like the first and second time is less about the likelihood of that future ever happening and more about an oblique and well, fun, means of adding clues.

It's all about the clues.

Re-reading the original especially, but also the second 666 appearance in hindsight and you can basically see half of the major themes or plot moves spelled out for you, right there, as far back as 2006/7.

I'd love to see Candyman introduced as a villain (even a minor one) before the end of this run, it would make for another plot development alluded to in #666, it's also another one of those things that would make the reader feel as if the 666-verse is getting closer as we approach the end of the run, despite Batman's best efforts. We all know Batman is ultimately going to win, but if the stakes are raised high enough, and enough of the villains plans are legitimately kept in play, it becomes more exciting to read IMO, and creates a feeling that just maybe there could be some meaningful casualties/consequences when the dust settles.


I watched a bit of Grant's NYCC 2012 panel/Q&A the other day where he mentioned this:

"This entire story is about that (all these different versions of Batman getting together to form Batman Inc) being utterly destroyed, and why that (concept) might not work ultimately."

So why wouldn't it work ultimately?, will Talia expose a fatal flaw in the Inc. concept?. Bruce seemed absolutely distraught in the first page of Inc vol.2#1, perhaps he feels responsible for the deaths of whoever those people are. Maybe those graves ARE filled by two of the Inc agents caught in this issue's explosion, Talia breaching Bruce's security, possibly planting a mole among Inc's ranks, and using it against him. I still don't think the timeline allows for those graves to be occupied by victims of the explosion, though.........food for thought.

[ViewtifulJC]

The inconsistent art is the main reason that I (probably) won't buy Absolute B&R, honestly if Quietly had drawn the whole run I'd snap it up in a heartbeat. Thank god Burnham stepped in, I've never been disappointed with one of his issues.

That, plus the Deluxe Editions I already have have done me pretty well.

I wouldn't want a Morrison Batman Omnibus, that's for sure. I got the Morrison New X-men run, which is about 40 issues, and it's a weapon of mass destruction. Can't imagine what a Batman one would look like, which would be like...60-something. Might need a full-work crew just to lift it off the shelf.

[Vil_Dee]

"This entire story is about that (all these different versions of Batman getting together to form Batman Inc) being utterly destroyed, and why that (concept) might not work ultimately."

So why wouldn't it work ultimately?, will Talia expose a fatal flaw in the Inc. concept?. Bruce seemed absolutely distraught in the first page of Inc vol.2#1, perhaps he feels responsible for the deaths of whoever those people are. Maybe those graves ARE filled by two of the Inc agents caught in this issue's explosion, Talia breaching Bruce's security, possibly planting a mole among Inc's ranks, and using it against him. I still don't think the timeline allows for those graves to be occupied by victims of the explosion, though.........food for thought.

Because there is only one Batman. You can't be like Batman just by putting on a costume and wanting it. Batman/Bruce is a unique individual as Darkseid/Hurt should have finally realized with all their lame copybats.

[Master X]

Many thing's that 'can't have happened in the DCnU'? There aren't any continuity errors in the book that are any more blatant than many other New 52 books. An error is an error, it can be explained away or it can be ignored but it doesn't mean the story isn't canon. In fact there are probably MORE continuity errors in a book like Teen Titans but you don't see anyone saying that book is set in a different universe.

My god when are people going to just accept this and move on!? Being a 'self-contained' story does not mean it's in a whole separate universe! Batman Inc. is a part of the New 52, end of story. There are soooo many things in various books that prove that fact, but I don't even need to mention them. All I need to do is point to the giant 'NEW 52' on the cover of the book. Case closed people.

LOL. Error? I mention no errors. You mentioned errors. I see them as continuity facts. Most INC issues are littered with them, small or not. And you just made my argument. I never implied stuff couldn't tie over to the DCNU, in fact I state they DO. I also state quite a few don't. But don't misjudge what I say; it's quite clear to anyone reading the comic that this has more ties to pre-reboot than post-reboot. Which "I PERSONALLY" prefer. If anything, Batman INC is the only thing in my personal continuity that I do consider CANON anymore.

AS TO WHO DIES. There's no way Damien is dying, even if it was the original intent. He's too popular. My guesses would be Damien's clone (Bruce's other son) and a future Damien travelled to the past. Wow, that sounds screwed up, but I just can't think who'd be killed off. I guess maybe...Talia? I mean, he did love her. So maybe Bruce's Damien clone son and Talia? This doesn't end until Talia is dead, does it? THINK ABOUT IT. Damien does still love her and I can see Damien forming a bond with his brother...then they both end up dead. It'd be Damien's Dark Knight moment like Bruce's and his parents death.

[ElMacho]

Because there is only one Batman. You can't be like Batman just by putting on a costume and wanting it. Batman/Bruce is a unique individual as Darkseid/Hurt should have finally realized with all their lame copybats.

Of course, and Darkseid quickly discovered that there is only Bruce Wayne when his copybats (awesome word by the way, I'm gonna use that instead of copycat from now on) died, but I'm wondering what Talia will use specifically to destroy Inc. Knowing that there is only one true Batman is fine, but how does that knowledge help you tear down Inc?. Maybe each new Batman is inspiring too many new enemies (how many enemies does Bruce Wayne have?), maybe it's impossible to keep an organisation the size of Inc secure, therefore compromising the safety of every agent (one security compromise may have led to the deaths of a few agents in this issue).

It's funny that after Bruce lured 30 assassins into one "kill box", Talia immediately did effectively the same thing to several Inc agents. Sometimes there's strength in numbers and sometimes you're just a bigger target. But again, where did the security breach come from?, is there a mole in Inc?, I notice the Hood didn't turn up at that "target"...........just sayin

[ElMacho]

That, plus the Deluxe Editions I already have have done me pretty well.

I wouldn't want a Morrison Batman Omnibus, that's for sure. I got the Morrison New X-men run, which is about 40 issues, and it's a weapon of mass destruction. Can't imagine what a Batman one would look like, which would be like...60-something. Might need a full-work crew just to lift it off the shelf.

lol, also, the only "Absolute" I have is All-Star Superman, and the binding's never filled me with confidence, to say the least. I think they could have done a bit better than a crappy glue binding, for a price of around $100, I want to be able to catch it by center pages and swing it over my head like Thor's hammer without anything falling out .

[Jeff Brady]

lol, also, the only "Absolute" I have is All-Star Superman, and the binding's never filled me with confidence, to say the least. I think they could have done a bit better than a crappy glue binding, for a price of around $100, I want to be able to catch it by center pages and swing it over my head like Thor's hammer without anything falling out .

ASS has sewn binding.

[ElMacho]

ASS has sewn binding.

Yep, I just had a look and it does actually, but they weren't very generous with the thread. I haven't opened the thing since I read the bonus material when I got it, I'll stick with the tpb's when I actually want to read the comic.

[Aquacatlungfish]

This comic was just too good.

[dupersuper]

lol, also, the only "Absolute" I have is All-Star Superman, and the binding's never filled me with confidence, to say the least.

Absolute New Frontier seems fine.

[arvind13]

I guess that, or that Talia dug Hurt up as an means to her own end. This seems more likely to me, but I doubt it matters much as this is an alternate reality that we'll likely never see again.

Well, the nuclear annihilation of Gotham city is definitely not going to happen. But other aspects of this alternate reality could still happen. Maybe Dr. Hurt/darkseid is behind talia. Or Dr. Hurt could return in the upcoming issues.

[batman23]

I'm just so curious as to how he's going to end his run

[tylenoljones]

Since discovering Aint it Cool's comic reviews last week, I'm finding them hilarious(like their sickeningly gushing review of Snyder's last issue of Batman) and thought I'd share their review of this issue:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/59887#2

I have to wonder if this guy knows what the word splendor means. And also, is it actually possible for a child to be a pedophile? I always thought that was a term reserved for adults, not 11 year olds.

[batman23]

Since discovering Aint it Cool's comic reviews last week, I'm finding them hilarious(like their sickeningly gushing review of Snyder's last issue of Batman) and thought I'd share their review of this issue:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/59887#2

I have to wonder if this guy knows what the word splendor means. And also, is it actually possible for a child to be a pedophile? I always thought that was a term reserved for adults, not 11 year olds.

"The final moments of Gotham are breathtaking in their splendor."