Tiring Of The Unfinished Feel of Bryan Azzarello's Wonder Woman

[jestersjoker]

John’s version is based on Diana the Amazon while Azz version is based on Diana the person.

Azz has portrayed the Amazons as brutal primitive warriors with a warrior’s code of conduct this is reflected in John’s portrayal of how Diana would act in the DC universe being brought up in that kind of a civilization so to speak.

While Azz’s Wonder Woman goes into Diana as a person so to speak.

Let’s say if Azz would have portrayed the Amazons as a highly educated peaceful advanced civilization then John would have followed suit by portraying Diana coming from that kind of a civilization.

[Outside_85]

Let’s say if Azz would have portrayed the Amazons as a highly educated peaceful advanced civilization then John would have followed suite by portraying Diana coming from that kind of a civilization.

Somehow I doubt it.

[jestersjoker]

Somehow I doubt it.

Somehow I do.
but that's me, different strokes

[slvn]

Everything I have heard about it suggests Rucka pitched the idea to DC as a year long arc involving Diana, Clark, and Bruce. DC green lighted it then bailed.

But at least Azzarello has no major creative differences with Johns in how they write the character and intergrate her in the wider world.

Oh wait...

As long as they agree that having different takes on the character in different books is OK, I don't think this kind of "creative difference" is going to be a problem for Azzarello's tenure. Of course, it could possibly happen that DC will want a long crossover arc that Azz doesn't want anything to do with. We'll see. He's already been on the title longer than most people expected, so much as I'm enjoying the title, as long as they let him finish up hi story in some manner, I wouldn't tend to see his departure as premature.

[Outside_85]

Somehow I do.
but that's me, different strokes

I meant that I doubt Johns and Azzarello are giving each others work with WW any more than a quick glaze.

[jestersjoker]

I meant that I doubt Johns and Azzarello are giving each others work with WW any more than a quick glaze.

I am not saying you’re not correct in your evaluation.

All I am doing is giving “my” evaluation of how I see it.

[MelDyer]

Tired of arguing that, with Issue #15, we know next to absolutely nothing about the new Wondy. Don't bother bringing that up here, ..please. For the love of God, don't.

That said, I am convinced that, until the Wonder Woman comic gets some editorial backbone, it will continue to be a sub-standard book. I am convinced that it will only be a matter of time, before another celebrity writer kills off 'Just' Zola and 'Just' Lennox, moves Wonder Woman back to Boston and makes her a government agent, ..and that the editors (presntly, Matt Idelson) will do absolutely nothing to stop them or exert any control over the whims of hired talent. While other comics have stable supporting casts and rogues galleries enjoyed for decades and known all over the world, Wonder Woman won't have these things.

What good is it to bring in Bryan Azzarello, George Perez or anyone else, if editors allow their successors to junk everything familiar to anyone, ignore the standards of comic book story-telling and do whatever the Hell they like with Wondy?

Not much good, I think.

As much as I'm excited about Diana being Zeus's daughter, her new independence, having brothers and getting into it, with Orion, ..I am careful not to get too comfortable. The present overall feeling of unfinishedness in WW, indulged by editor Matt Idelson, shouldn't make anyone too comfortable or confident that the comic is finally going in the right direction.

[Sailor Moon]

Preaching the preach that's been preached a million times, I'm afraid. The real issue is the sales are never good enough for editorial to step in and do what you're asking. Admittedly, they should anyway, but it's easy to justify a new radical departure with a new radical cast and new radical...well, you get it. Right now the sales seem to be stable enough at 40-50K, though. I keep my fingers crossed for a boost, though the numbers seem to be falling, albeit at a slow pace.

[carabas]

Preaching the preach that's been preached a million times, I'm afraid. The real issue is the sales are never good enough for editorial to step in and do what you're asking. Admittedly, they should anyway, but it's easy to justify a new radical departure with a new radical cast and new radical...well, you get it. Right now the sales seem to be stable enough at 40-50K, though. I keep my fingers crossed for a boost, though the numbers seem to be falling, albeit at a slow pace.

Editorial steps in when sales are bad, not when they're almost double of what the book usually sells.

ETA: Well, in theory anyway. See Batgirl.

[Sailor Moon]

Editorial steps in when sales are bad, not when they're almost double of what the book usually sells.

ETA: Well, in theory anyway. See Batgirl.

Not necessarily. If a book sales really well, I honestly think editorial will be looking at killing off characters more carefully. For instance, if Wonder Woman was a Top 5 seller after Azz left, and the next writer wanted to just kill off the cast that he (presumably) is building, I think it would be looked at with a closer eye. This is what I assume MelDyer was getting at.

[Outside_85]

I really dont understand this complaint about the book being unfinished any more.

First it's that (despite it being printed in several issues now) she doesn't have an address beyond Somewhere in central London. This complaint puzzles me because we never get any closer in any of the other books either, as far as I can tell. Superman/Clark has always been stuck with the same Somewhere in Metropolis. Same with Batman, despite living in a famous Manor, we've never been giving an address for the place. Likewise we only know Tim Drake has penthouse apartments in Lex Towers which is apparently somewhere on Manhatten.

Then theres the question of how stuff is paid for, which is fair enough. While its gone unmentioned so far what Diana spends her time on besides adventuring and helping ARGUS with categorizing old stuff. I would remind you that at it's heart Wayne Enterprises is a huge blank slate Batman uses to explain his wealth from, we don't know what exactly it's doing to make money, only that it does and that there will magically be a division for even the most obscure area's whenever Bruce/Batman needs one to be there.

Then it's about surnames and lack of them. On one hand there are the Gods who never had any or needed them, because you immediately knew who they were by their first names alone, something thats spread to Diana and Hippolyta (and superheroes in general). As for the offspring of Zeus and Zola; so far it appears most of them have names with double meanings, so the possibility is that the names we've been presented with aren't even their real ones.
Also there is the possibility that none of these characters designed by Azzarello, Chiang and Atkins are meant to live through their run on the book, considering how long the knives seem to be.

[wagthedog]

I really dont understand this complaint about the book being unfinished any more.

First it's that (despite it being printed in several issues now) she doesn't have an address beyond Somewhere in central London. This complaint puzzles me because we never get any closer in any of the other books either, as far as I can tell. Superman/Clark has always been stuck with the same Somewhere in Metropolis. Same with Batman, despite living in a famous Manor, we've never been giving an address for the place. Likewise we only know Tim Drake has penthouse apartments in Lex Towers which is apparently somewhere on Manhatten.

Then theres the question of how stuff is paid for, which is fair enough. While its gone unmentioned so far what Diana spends her time on besides adventuring and helping ARGUS with categorizing old stuff. I would remind you that at it's heart Wayne Enterprises is a huge blank slate Batman uses to explain his wealth from, we don't know what exactly it's doing to make money, only that it does and that there will magically be a division for even the most obscure area's whenever Bruce/Batman needs one to be there.

Then it's about surnames and lack of them. On one hand there are the Gods who never had any or needed them, because you immediately knew who they were by their first names alone, something thats spread to Diana and Hippolyta (and superheroes in general). As for the offspring of Zeus and Zola; so far it appears most of them have names with double meanings, so the possibility is that the names we've been presented with aren't even their real ones.
Also there is the possibility that none of these characters designed by Azzarello, Chiang and Atkins are meant to live through their run on the book, considering how long the knives seem to be.

How about this for the 'unfinished feel' of the book:

What is her origin? What is it really because the zero issue didn't do much for me. Why did she leave, where did she go first?

Her powers, as written by Azz is still in the vague category. In other words, to some, like me they have an unfinished feel to it.

Is she even technically a superhero in her own book? We know that she is helping Zola out and throughout these adventures she is coming to learn who her brothers and sisters are, but still alot is left on the plate with her siblings.

These are a few items I can think of off the top of my head

[Outside_85]

How about this for the 'unfinished feel' of the book:

What is her origin? What is it really because the zero issue didn't do much for me. Why did she leave, where did she go first?

So far in the New 52, you could as the same of Batman. Why is he doing what he is doing? Who trained him?

Btw, I do believe we do know where she ended up first: on a base and under watch.

Her powers, as written by Azz is still in the vague category. In other words, to some, like me they have an unfinished feel to it.

Not that dissimilar to how Superman and WW are both needed to catch a carrier in JL, but in his own book Supes can bench the planet for a week. While the extent of his other senses also appear to be up in the air still.

Is she even technically a superhero in her own book? We know that she is helping Zola out and throughout these adventures she is coming to learn who her brothers and sisters are, but still alot is left on the plate with her siblings.

The term superhero appears to be put onto an individual with extraordinary or superhuman powers who uses those powers in the defence of the public. And Diana does that, her most immediate mission right now however is Zola and her child.
That said, I believe Azzarello has mentioned he wanted to turn Wonder Woman towards more classical heroics.

[MelDyer]

I really dont understand this complaint about the book being unfinished any more...there is the possibility that none of these characters designed by Azzarello, Chiang and Atkins are meant to live through their run on the book, considering how long the knives seem to be.

It's an unfinished 'feel', Outside. It's a feeling and not as quantitively scientific, as you are speculating it might be.

The biggest contribution to that feeling is what's going on in Wonder Woman, right now, regarding the supporting cast, if she has one, and lack of a clearly established base for the leading lady. Is Zola the new perrenial girl friday, Diana's Etta or Gabrielle? Is she even slated to be a regular character in WW? Zola roots Wondy in the human experience the same way Etta used to, and I'd like her to be a permanent fixture, but don't feel Mr. Azzarello and Mr. Idelson (editor) are commited to making that happen. You get the feeling that, wherever Diana and Zola land, when the dust has settled, that they're going to be okay and that there's a strong bond between them, ..tying the wonder to the woman.

Azzarello's greatest achievement here, so far, is that he's given us a very human and natural Wonder Woman, ..moreso than any other writer has to date. Wondy needs that, and she needs Zola or a mortal, imperfect character, like her. Lennox, for my money, is to bizarre and too super-powered to fill that role, in my opinion, and should NOT be a regular in the comic - the scruffy gargoyle brother, reserved for the occasional team-up is fine. The fact that Diana doesn't have a more defined stage, upon which to interact with these characters - London, as presently offered, isn't defined enough - adds to the unfinished and uncommited feeling I'm talking about.

The WW comic has no real setting, and comic books, need that.

I am assuming the origin has changes Mr. Azzarello hasn't showed us, yet. I'm fine with that and even a little excited by it, ..looking forward to Azzarello's contribution to the mythos. I hope the changes, especially as they relate to Steve Trevor and why Wondy left Paradise, are MAJOR.

I'm a little regretful that, via the Justice League comic, Steve Trevor is still in the picture, at all. As I find him a boring and perfectly irrelevant love interest for her, I'm fine with Geoff Johns turning him into DC's answer to Marvel's Nick Fury ..and would be thrilled if Wondy got a new beau, entirely - some wild-eyed freight pilot or ex-military guy, maybe. I'm hoping that Trevor is permanently in the rearview, but can't be sure, as that hasn't been made clear in the pages of Wonder Woman. Honestly, ..does anybody here see Bryan Azzarello's independent, freedom-loving Wondy making cow eyes at a Nick Fury sort, now or ever? I don't see where Steve Trevor fits in the mythos anymore, ..and I hope the promised, upcoming fliration with Orion is the game changer, here.

I also think having Diana leave the island for the love of a man is a silly, outdated idea that should be left in the Forties, ..with Steve Trevor. George Perez was wise to take him out of the equation, but can't be sure what his role in the Wonder-mythos is currently, because he's not mentioned or dealt with in Wonder Woman, at all. Not knowing Steve's role here, while he's developed in Justice League, greatly contributes to the unfinished 'feel' I mentioned, and Mr. Azzarello can't be blamed for that.

I think the mess with Steve Trevor is an editorial fumble, entirely. You look at Steve in these two comics, with ZERO information to work with, as a reader, and you go, "What in Hell's going on, here?" It's a mess.

Wonder Woman, right now, is a mess!

There's no center here, and stories, especially comic books, need that. Everything in this comic just feels tossed up in the air, unfinished and incomplete with no artistic or editorial commitment to anything that's going on now, or went on before. Furthermore, this unfinished, uncommited feeling is beginning to feel like it'll be a permanent thing - that Mr. Azzarello and his editors have no intention of nailing anything down into a stage for stories to be told on or, at the least, launched from. With no center, no definition and no commitment on the creative end, and in spite of some truly exciting things happening in this comic, ..I find it very difficult to commit to buying and sticking with Wonder Woman.

That's a shame, ..because I don't think it would much effort to fix some of the problems I mentioned. To get it done, the will and editorial wisdom to fix them has to be there, ..and I don't think it is. Like everything else in WW, I can't be sure, and the feeling of not ever being sure about anything, here, is tiring. Exhausting.

It's not a good feeling.

And before anybody says it, ..I don't care what's happening in other comics. Wonder Woman has no recognizable center and no unifying vision. Try to deal with that, as it relates to the comic, before making a comparitive study to use in defense of Azzarello's work.

[wagthedog]

So far in the New 52, you could as the same of Batman. Why is he doing what he is doing? Who trained him?

Btw, I do believe we do know where she ended up first: on a base and under watch.



Not that dissimilar to how Superman and WW are both needed to catch a carrier in JL, but in his own book Supes can bench the planet for a week. While the extent of his other senses also appear to be up in the air still.



The term superhero appears to be put onto an individual with extraordinary or superhuman powers who uses those powers in the defence of the public. And Diana does that, her most immediate mission right now however is Zola and her child.
That said, I believe Azzarello has mentioned he wanted to turn Wonder Woman towards more classical heroics.

Don't care about Batman. There is no need to bring him up. I am talking about Wonder Woman on a Wonder Woman board and about the unfinished feel of her book, not Batmans. Besides, his book did not get a hard reboot like Wonder Woman. He still remained status quo in the nu52.


And again, don't care about Superman. Don't even read him except for the Justice League. If he can truly bench press planets, than he is more ridiculous than I thought. All I care about is the vagueness of Wonder Womans powers. What will she produce next from her bracers--maybe some ice cream.

I thought Azz was writing a horror comic that just happened to have Wonder Woman in it. Don't know what you mean by classical heroics. Unless we are talking the vertigo line, I would love for Wonder Woman to get back to being a straight superhero book with the emphasis on her superheroics.