Where does Batman live? Where does Superman work? Why is it that people reading Superman and Batman comics can answer these questions? Easy questions, I think. How many panels does it take to get that done?
Or to give Zola and Lennox surnames?
How is that a bother? Why is that a problem, with fourteen issues in the can?
Prove to me that Wonder Woman isn't a hooker ..or how she's paying rent, if she pays rent. You can't. You can't, because Wonder Woman's editors aren't on the job ..and haven't been for quite some time.
Prove to me Diana isn't a drug dealer or a jewel thief, or running a gold-plated escort service out of that suite of rooms she drifts through, every few issues. You can't...
Not picking on you here, Slvn, ..but, it does matter to me. Here's my little, don't-know-squat list of simple easy-to-answer questions about the comic we're reading:
Last edited by MelDyer; 11-28-2012 at 10:19 AM. Reason: clarity
Look, it's really pretty simple. There is no slacking in editorial.
The characters are not nailed down to the finest detail for a reason. If you had known what was revealed about Hermes, it would have given something away.
You can always go into detail. What you can't do is take them back once they're out there.
I predicted that he, and not [Just] Lennox (who so many of you seemed to hate, at the time) would betray Diana, while [Just] Lennox would stand by his little sister to the end, ..and he has! I wasn't alone in predicting this, and I'm reading the same comic you are, ..but just saw the writing on the wall, before it dried. Here's my big Hermes-is-a-big-two-faced-ratbag thread.
Still don't understand how so many of you didn't see Hermes's betrayal coming. Azzarello practically wrote it on our foreheads! Lol
Again, ..how does telling us where Wonder Woman lives take away from the great artistic work we're reading, ..and it is a great and inspired work, even with all it's problems. Making Diana the daughter of Zeus and weaving her into this family of meddling Greek gods was a stroke of genius, and Mr. Azzarello's writing has made us all wonder why Wondy-creators never bothered to do this before! Sheer genius!
And I'm loving every minute of it.
Doesn't change the fact that he's writing a comic. It's a genre AND a medium, and we have certain, simple expectations that deserve to be respected ..for three-plus, hard-earned bucks, a month. Nobody's asking him or his editors to knock over Mount Everest, but, between them I can't accept that this simple, standard comic book stuff can't be addressed.
Again, who does it hurt? Does it hurt you or Azzarello? How many panels does it take to name Diana's building 'the Blank Hotel' or 'the Blank Arms' or whatever? How does that hurt the story or the fans?
No! Please don't tell me [Just] Zola's last name or where Wonder Woman lives! Please! I don't think I could handle it! Heh'heh! Are you kidding?
I think for three dollars, Uncle War can be bothered with that.
Last edited by MelDyer; 11-28-2012 at 11:19 AM. Reason: style, link, more text, clarity
How fitting. Go read the preview for Superman # 14 to see what's going on in Clark Kent's own appartment:
~ One thousand apologies if I'm using broken English. ~
Wasn't the fact that a betrayal is coming spoiled in the solicits itself?
Jean Grey : What makes you such a bitch, Emma?
Emma Frost : Breeding, darling. Top class breeding.
--What state and town did New52 Jimmy Olsen grow up in? Was it rural or urban?
--Where does he go to see a doctor when he needs a checkup?
--Are both of his parents living? What do they do? Does he have any family members in prison?
--Has he ever risked his life to save a friend?
--Does he have a sex life?
--Does he ever lose his temper?
--Has he ever owned animals?
--How does he get along with fireflies?
--Does he have any enemies?
--Does he own a gun? How about a truck?
--Have he and Clark ever had a heart-to-heart that reminded Clark of anything important?
I have read Action and I've read Wonder Woman, and I can tell you that I feel I know Zola--last name or no last name--better than I know Jimmy.
It's probably because the answers to those questions are relevant to the story that those books are telling. If Superman started with a space opera, his job might have been less relevant (and his eponymous book's opening arc, IMO, might have been more interesting).Where does Batman live? Where does Superman work? Why is it that people reading Superman and Batman comics can answer these questions?
Who was Batman's childhood rival? Who was Superman's mentor, other than his parents, when he was 12 or thirteen years old? What school subjects did Clark prefer (as Diana apparently preferred combat to religion, according to War)? Did Clark's parents ever lie to him? What did Bruce and Clark do that made their parents proud? Did they have any nicknames? As children, did they ever feel like misfits? Back them, did they ever lose their tempers? How did they learn to be merciful? What kind of music do they like, and what do they do to relax? What do they like for breakfast?
We know that stuff about Wonder Woman, and some of it might tell me as much or more about her as a person than whether she lives in a hotel would tell me.
Prove to me that Clark isn't a hooker now that he has quit his day job. For that matter, prove to me that Superman isn't into auto-asphyxiation (involving kryptonite in some way, I guess), or that Batman doesn't have a drug habit. .It can be hard to prove a negative. Even if we knew what her job was, I couldn't prove to you that she didn't do a little hooking on the side. We know from JL that she has helped out ARGUS as well as having adventures with the team and on her own during the mere five years she has spent in "man's world," so I doubt she has had time to set up a prostitution business, and she is the princess of Amazons and insists on trust in her relationships, so it would be a pretty odd vocational choice. Maybe she sold a harpy's egg. Most likely she has received pay from ARGUS, since JL 13 and 14 make it sound like she working with/for them pretty regularly. It could be interesting to find out sometime, but it's not something I need to know in order to enjoy the comic. But obviously, your mileage may vary.Prove to me that Wonder Woman isn't a hooker
That's fine; I enjoy this kind of conversation. And you're entitled to have it matter to you. For me, the emotional as well as colorful stuff that we know about Zola and Wonder Woman matters a lot more.Not picking on you here, Slvn, ..but, it does matter to me.
That's your call, but I wouldn't pay 10 cents for Zola's last name. What's in a name? I'm paying for the story and characterization, and I'm pleased.How much should I be paying for this comic to find out Zola's last name? Five bucks? Twenty bucks? Three not enough?
I wouldn't be any less pleased if I learned Zola's last name. For your sake, I hope we do. But, unless her last name is "-El' and she's Superman's long-lost sister, I doubt it will do much to let us know the character better.
Last edited by slvn; 11-28-2012 at 07:57 PM.
Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."
Of course he can do wrong. I didn't really like For Tomorrow all that much, for example. It was OK; I just didn't love it. The Flashpoint Batman was good, but I thought it was a little overrated; among the Flashpoint minis, I preferred Outsider and a couple of the others. Even in Wonder Woman, he can make mistakes; I think there was a typo in #0. :) And I've actually agreed with Brett about the occasional unnecessary splash page. I've said I didn't like #s 5 and 6 as well as the other issues. Etc.
I wasn't saying Azz doesn't make mistakes, but given Mel's post, I wanted to point out that we know a lot more about Zola than we would know about strangers we meet in bars, and more than we know about a lot of characters who last names we know. Am I wrong about that? Did I make any of the things that I said we know about Zola? Do they not add up to more insight on her as a character, and also more colorful detail, than a last name would give us?
Of course we could have both, but I was responding to Mel's point that in a bar we might only know that she's Zola, and I wanted to point out that we have an awful lot more than a first name.
Last edited by slvn; 11-28-2012 at 04:28 PM.
Double-sized issues is what we need.
Sexism: men are from Ares, women are from Aphrodite.