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  1. #1
    Darkseid's Lawyer MelDyer's Avatar
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    Default Tiring Of The Unfinished Feel of Bryan Azzarello's Wonder Woman

    Weary of the unfinished, uncommitted, mutable feel of Bryan Azzarello's Wonder Woman.

    Neither Zola or Lennox have been given last names (surnames) and it's already Issue #14, with #15 on the way!

    Diana's 'place' in London looks an awful lot like a hotel suite, though it could be a flat ..or a condo? It should be clear where in Hades she is, from one issue to the next! We know where Batman and Superman live? Where does Diana actually live? This is SO basic!

    What does Wonder Woman do for a living? What's her trade? Perhaps, we shouldn't ask, considering her taste in clothes, boots and ropes.

    Zola and Lennox are still around, but, I don't feel so certain that they are the supporting cast. I don't get the impression that this comic truly has a regular supporting cast.

    What exactly is Lennox?! Is he Great Brittain's retired Captain America? I imagine that Lennox will, at some point, go back to where ever he's from and settle into being a guest character, as super-powered siblings or counterparts tend to do (Supergirl, Batgirl, etc), ..because he simply doesn't feel like a regular. Honestly, I don't want to read a WW comic, with her brother in every other issue, throwing tanks at people!

    Zola feels like Etta's successor, but also seems so incomplete! Does Zola have a family or a husband, serving in the US military? How does she run a farm all by herself, or does she? Who's running her farm now, while she's running around with Wondy? What's her deal? Of all the new characters, Zola, because she has SO much potential and because I like her SO much, is the most infuriating of all to me ..and the biggest disappointment.

    Bryan Azzarello is writing the Wonder Woman comic, like a newspaper strip, and it isn't. The very basic setting or settings for this comic series seem unfinished, and I don't get the impression that Mr. Azzarello is interested in filling in the blanks -again, just the basic stuff- anytime soon. How long are we to wait for him to get around to this stuff? It doesn't feel to me that Mr. Azzarello is entirely committed to writing this comic, ..beyond telling a clever, but sluggishly slow, story.

    Fans know that a good comic book is more than a story. Maybe, the editors need to jump in and make some demands here. Isn't that what they're paid for for? More sleep-at-the-wheel editing on Wonder Woman -should we be surprised?

    And that makes it very hard to commit to buying it.
    Last edited by MelDyer; 11-27-2012 at 09:11 AM.
    "I collect beings like him and cut them open--so I can hold in my hand what makes them tick."
    Cassandra on Orion of the New Gods (Wonder Woman #26)

  2. #2
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    So "let's all ignore the great story being told because we don't know the surname of a couple of characters or that much about their personal lives that wouldn't be relevant to the story"? Sure. Now let's get a guy here that says that we already see too much of the supporting characters and you two crazy folks can have a nice conversation :)
    Last edited by Bruce Kent; 11-27-2012 at 09:11 AM.

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    Last edited by Outside_85; 11-27-2012 at 12:47 PM.

  4. #4
    Darkseid's Lawyer MelDyer's Avatar
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    The basic things that make a comic books what they are feels incomplete. Basic stuff.

    I'm all for Zola succeeding Etta as Wondy's gal friday, but, she think I should know a little more about what Bryan Azzarello has offered as her background - Virginia, the farm, her parents. Even for A SIDEKICK, she just seems painfully incomplete.
    She needs a last name.

    These are matters an editor could address with ease. "Bryan, we need you to work Zola's last name into the next issue. Thanks. Great job, so far!" There. Done. What's the problem?

    Zola Trevor. Zola Marston. Zola Candy. Zola Blankenship. Zola Azzarello. Zola..something!

    I don't think I'm asking so much.
    Last edited by MelDyer; 11-27-2012 at 09:35 AM.
    "I collect beings like him and cut them open--so I can hold in my hand what makes them tick."
    Cassandra on Orion of the New Gods (Wonder Woman #26)

  5. #5
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Sounds more like someone who's not overly interested in the story.

    Btw, Zola's mother is dead and her father is serving life. And she cant go back to her farm as long as Hera wants her head.
    You can't be interested in the story *and* want the character's life and supporting regulars more thoroughly fleshed out?

    It shouldn't be that you have to have one OR the other. Why can't the readers have both?

  6. #6
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    Zola Trevor. Zola Marston. Zola Candy. Zola Blankenship. Zola Azzarello. Zola..something!

    I don't think I'm asking so much.
    My vote's for Zola Granola.

    The thing it always comes back to for me is that Wonder Woman had a corner of the world of her own. It was filled with siblings and well-defined cast members, and background information. Then Azzarello trashes everything, and does not replace it. His London was a collection of cliches; it had pubs and Big Ben. He made Paradise Island less interesting, then he ruined it. He replaces the cast with a host of personality-free allegorical gods who spout vague, oracular nonsense.

    Yes, I call that vandalism. He tears down and does not build up. Whoever comes next should simply pick up where #600 left off. Just bring back the real Amazons and Paradise Island. No explanation is needed. Just get it over with.
    Superhero comic books only become art to the extent that their banal, unrealistic fantasy and garish styles go too far and become interesting. Attempts to ground them in reality can only ruin them.

  7. #7
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    The basic things that make a comic books what they are feels incomplete. Basic stuff.

    I'm all for Zola succeeding Etta as Wondy's gal friday, but, she think I should know a little more about what Bryan Azzarello has offered as her background - Virginia, the farm, her parents. Even for A SIDEKICK, she just seems painfully incomplete.
    She needs a last name.

    These are matters an editor could address with ease. "Bryan, we need you to work Zola's last name into the next issue. Thanks. Great job, so far!" There. Done. What's the problem?

    Zola Trevor. Zola Marston. Zola Candy. Zola Blankenship. Zola Azzarello. Zola..something!

    I don't think I'm asking so much.
    I'm not really seeing what having or not having a name thing will really change about them. I mean, we are talking about people, not cattle. They don't feel incomplete because they're missing their "mark".
    Zola is a girl living alone in a farm since the death of her mother, whith whom she had a conflicted relationship. Her father is in prison, and while we don't know exactly why, we know it's for a very grave crime (it's implied to be murder), and she barely knows him. She's a "party girl" who "likes men" and is probably a bit screw up.
    Lennox is WWII era Brittish who discovered he was different after surviving a bombing. He joined the military and fought the Nazis, then he disappeared and actively avoid to mix himselves with the Gods business. At some point, he connected with Sirraca who became his "guide" in divine matters. He's a cocky wisecracker, trusting his abilities probably a bit too much, and he often ends up being the end of the joke.
    Honestly I couldn't care less about their last name. Fantasio or Vegeta didn't have a last name and they were fully fleshed characters.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

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    Last edited by Outside_85; 11-27-2012 at 12:47 PM.

  9. #9
    The curious one.
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    Some details would be nice. They don't stop me from enjoying the story, but they would be nice. However since Diana is also in JL and I think JL is set a bit further back than WW I think that might be the cause of it. Is she living in London because for one reason or another America became inhospitable? From what I've seen in Batwoman Mr. Bones and the DEO don't trust and don't like her. Could be a situation like the 1950's when a lot of people moved out of the US to get away from McCarthy. But while Diana is doing all of this is there another part of her life on hold?

    Lennox I just figured was a Constantine clone and didn't really think about him that much. Zola's background is something I'm curious about if only because I'd like to know how she and Zeus met. But then I'd like to know how Zeus and Sirroco's mother met and how exactly one of the great women haters of all time managed to seduce the queen of the amazons.

    I'm hoping things will be filled in as the story moves along.

  10. #10
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Thing is that you very much sound like you only want Diana fleshed out and no story at all.
    I have no idea why you would say that as it's the complete opposite of what I've been saying. I enjoy the story, but I think it's too decompressed overall such that in the last 14 issues, we could have gotten the full story *and* gotten Diana's world fleshed out a bit more.

    I have said over and over again that I'm enjoying the story, but that I think that too much time is spent building the world of the gods and not building the world of the main character. I've seen more of the homes of Hades and Hephaestus than I have of Diana.

    So I'm a bit confused why you would say this when I just replied to you directly the other day in the WW #14 thread:

    I'm enjoying the story overall but I find it ridiculously decompressed. I think the first 14 issues could have been done in half that which would have left plenty of time for 'down time' or for at least seeing what it's like when she's not trying to protect/find a baby.
    I shouldn't have to repeat 'I enjoy the storyline' in every single post, and I have said it enough to you that you should have the gist of it by now ;)

  11. #11
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    Deleted....
    Last edited by Outside_85; 11-27-2012 at 12:47 PM.

  12. #12
    Darkseid's Lawyer MelDyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    ...I think that too much time is spent building the world of the gods and not building the world of the main character. I've seen more of the homes of Hades and Hephaestus than I have of Diana...
    THAT should've been the title for this thread.

    We've actually seem more of Hell and Olympus than of Diana's 'place'. We don't even know if that place is her residence or a hotel suite she's leasing on an extended trip to London. We don't know where the main character lives! That wouldn't be so ridiculous, if we weren't already on Issue #14, ..and, since we are, it is pretty ridiculous. If something so basic as that can be established in the Batman and Superman comics, why is it so outrageous to expect it in Wonder Woman?

    And yes, Outside, I think Zola should have been introduced to us with her full name. By Issue #5, at least, someone in the comic should have addressed Zola by her full name. No, I don't think that is an unrealistic expectation in a comic book, where Wonder Woman's pudgy best friend was once introduced to as 'Etta Candy'. Not 'Etta'.

    This is a comic book. Even in comics, there are standards.

    These details seem trivial, but piled up, as they presently are in Wonder Woman, they create an overall atmosphere of temporariness and incompletion. It's like, "Don't get too comfortable with Zola or London or Diana's GENDER or hair color or anything else, ..cuz this comic's creators are just throwing things on a wall to see what sticks and generally don't know what they're doing. Everything's up in the air here, ..but, do keep buying the comic and making our publishers rich."

    What is that? Why should I keep buying a comic that feels like it might drop off the face of the Earth, tomorrow? All of those little loose ends add up.

    What do the editors of Wonder Woman do to earn their paychecks? Do they edit this comic on jet-skis? In rush hour traffic? Have they ever seen or corresponded with the gents, who write and illustrate this comic? How can they publish a comic book for fourteeen months, without getting these basic things nailed down ..and call themselves 'editors'?

    On principle, I'm not sure who's more to blame, the editors or Mr. Azzarello, but, ultimately, ..the blame must be left at the feet of the editors. They should know better.

    And we deserve better. We deserve Zola Granola.
    Last edited by MelDyer; 11-27-2012 at 11:30 AM. Reason: clarity and outrage
    "I collect beings like him and cut them open--so I can hold in my hand what makes them tick."
    Cassandra on Orion of the New Gods (Wonder Woman #26)

  13. #13
    Moderate Moderator Javier Velasco's Avatar
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    Outside_85,

    Please allow other posters the courtesy of taking what they say at face value.
    That is really the only way to keep the message boards civil.
    Once we get into a situation where we question the validity of whether posters actually believe what they post, we begin to devolve into personal characterizations (or worse, attacks). And that isn't the purpose of the message board.

    We are here to discuss all things Wonder Woman. Not to judge or devalue each other's opinions or veracity.

    And please excuse me for making this public, rather than a private note, but I felt it was something that posters needed to be reminded of.

    Thank you,

    Javier Velasco

  14. #14
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    Deleted, withdrawing
    Last edited by Outside_85; 11-27-2012 at 12:46 PM.

  15. #15
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Quite simple; I don't believe you when you say it, since it's usually followed by a torrent of complaints.
    For the record, I find it redundant to repeatedly say 'I like this' when no one is contradicting/disputing what I like. Discussion, to me, is a two way street and if I just posted 'I like X' over and over again with no one else saying 'Well, I don't like it and here's why', then that would be a pretty dull conversation. For example, I posted at the beginning of the WW 14 thread what I liked and what I disliked and engaged in some discussion over whether Siracca was invited by Diana to come visit in person. Then further down the thread, a few posters began to discuss and debate one of the points I brought up, so I engaged in that discussion.

    No one that I saw disputed what I liked about the book, so I didn't enter into a discussion with them about it. Someone disputed something I don't like about it, so I engaged them in friendly conversation on the topic.

    I still buy, read and enjoy the book. I wouldn't buy and read it if I weren't enjoying it - I'm not masochistic that way ;) I've almost always managed to find something to like about every run, tho' some of them were harder to find those good bits than others ;)

    The main reason I tend to speak more on the 'things I don't like' is because those things haven't changed for 14 issues, and over time, that's beginning to wear thin with me. I do enjoy the story, I do love the characterizations of the gods, and I do love Chiang's style of art.

    Can't help it if you don't believe me and I won't waste your time with replies any longer, then. Sorry to see that come to an end, tho'.

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