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Thread: Superman, #14

  1. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    For me all will be forgiven in regard to his goofy jealous behavior if after this arc's resolution, and some moral lessons along the way, an epilogue has a genuinely happy (and clean shaven for god's sake) Clark showing up at Jon and Lois's door with a housewarming present. Now that would be classic Clark.
    Quoted for truth. While I like Lobdell's writing, it's probably safe to say that whole jealousy angle is a risky approach -- it's not too bad right now, but if it continues it might become annoying fairly quickly. Hopefully Lobdell has some good ideas (like the one you've suggested) on how to gently close the door on this issue.

  2. #212
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidgrantlloyd View Post
    Quoted for truth. While I like Lobdell's writing, it's probably safe to say that whole jealousy angle is a risky approach -- it's not too bad right now, but if it continues it might become annoying fairly quickly. Hopefully Lobdell has some good ideas (like the one you've suggested) on how to gently close the door on this issue.
    Quoted for truth. Agree on all counts, nothing to add.

  3. #213
    Ghost of Perdition Nocturnus's Avatar
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    ^ Agreed with all. In addition to all this, I would like to see more about Jonathan Caroll at some point. It should be a good idea to show what made 'Lois Lane' choose her man, what she see's in him etc. To flesh out the idea that they are in fact having a good and healthy relationship and it's not just a 'random booty call'.
    Last edited by Nocturnus; 12-02-2012 at 06:40 PM.

  4. #214
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturnus View Post
    ^ Agreed with all. In addition to all this, I would like to see more about Jonathan Caroll at some point. It should be a good idea to show what made 'Lois Lane' choose her man, what she see's in him etc. To flesh out the idea that they are in fact having a good and healthy relationship and it's not just a 'random booty call'.
    Lobdell said at the LBCC, I believe, that we'd learn how Jonathan and Lois met. So, I think it's safe to assume we haven't seen/heard the last of Jonathan Carroll. Although, it should be noted that we've already gotten several heavy hints about what Lois sees in Jonathan. He's a journalist, like she is; he's a foreign correspondent. He is very supportive of her professionally, attending events with her and congratulating her on a job well done. In Superman #11, Clark briefly sat down to a dinner at a fine restaurant with Jonathan, Lois, and her sister Lucy. He remarked, then, that he thought Jonathan was a nice guy. Jonathan was never presented as a "random booty call," and Clark had no reason to think so even before he discovered Jonathan and Lois were going to be living together (something Clark sarcastically interpreted as Lois deciding Jonathan was the love of her life).

    Of course, Clark was wrong to ascribe the term "love of your life" to Jonathan Carroll; he was speaking hyperbolically because he was so upset. In truth, Lois and Jonathan's relationship has been presented as neither a booty call nor true love. In Superman #13, Jonathan's text to Lois clearly indicated that Lois had had misgivings about moving in. Superman #14 expanded on this when Lois told him, "The reason I didn't tell you first" about moving in with Jonathan "is because I knew you know me well enough you would talk me out of it." In other words, on the one hand Lois didn't want to be talked out of deciding to move in with Jonathan. On the other hand, the fact that she had reservations and knows that anyone who would know her true feelings and her true self wouldn't let her make a decision like that signifies that in her heart of hearts she had genuine doubts about Jonathan.

    This stage in the Lois and Clark relationship feels somewhat like the stage they went through on Smallville in Season 6 or 7, when Clark was pursuing Lana and Lois was either with Oliver Queen or her editor, Grant Gabriel. Neither of those relationships lasted, but they did help illuminate and develop the characters further. This is one step on their romantic journey that will hopefully be handled well going forward.
    Last edited by misslane38; 12-02-2012 at 08:10 PM.

  5. #215

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    I injoyed this issue.

    I look forward to next month and Lex Luthor.

  6. #216
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    Man I must be the only one who doesn't want Lois and Clark together, bickering couples in fiction was never my thing.

  7. #217
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Skill View Post
    Man I must be the only one who doesn't want Lois and Clark together, bickering couples in fiction was never my thing.
    The New 52 has been going on for a year and a half now. So far, Lois and Clark have fought twice; the rest of the time their interactions have been civil and friendly. One or two fights is not how I would define a "bickering couple" in fiction. Moreover, in most incarnations of the Superman myth, little moments of bickering are clearly highlighted as built up sexual tension that happen in between a lot of moments characterized by camaraderie and caring. Most friendships and love stories are not without a fight now and then. The great thing about the occasional flare ups between Clark and Lois is that they tend to be caused by one or the other pushing each other to be better -- to be more honest about their feelings or to be a better reporter. All of the great love stories share that sort of underlying foundation. Smallville's Lois and Clark did it well, in my opinion (see here and the video below).

    Last edited by misslane38; 12-02-2012 at 11:30 PM.

  8. #218
    Infme et fier de l'tre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane38 View Post
    Lobdell said at the LBCC, I believe, that we'd learn how Jonathan and Lois met. So, I think it's safe to assume we haven't seen/heard the last of Jonathan Carroll. Although, it should be noted that we've already gotten several heavy hints about what Lois sees in Jonathan. He's a journalist, like she is; he's a foreign correspondent. He is very supportive of her professionally, attending events with her and congratulating her on a job well done. In Superman #11, Clark briefly sat down to a dinner at a fine restaurant with Jonathan, Lois, and her sister Lucy. He remarked, then, that he thought Jonathan was a nice guy. Jonathan was never presented as a "random booty call," and Clark had no reason to think so even before he discovered Jonathan and Lois were going to be living together (something Clark sarcastically interpreted as Lois deciding Jonathan was the love of her life).

    Of course, Clark was wrong to ascribe the term "love of your life" to Jonathan Carroll; he was speaking hyperbolically because he was so upset. In truth, Lois and Jonathan's relationship has been presented as neither a booty call nor true love. In Superman #13, Jonathan's text to Lois clearly indicated that Lois had had misgivings about moving in. Superman #14 expanded on this when Lois told him, "The reason I didn't tell you first" about moving in with Jonathan "is because I knew you know me well enough you would talk me out of it." In other words, on the one hand Lois didn't want to be talked out of deciding to move in with Jonathan. On the other hand, the fact that she had reservations and knows that anyone who would know her true feelings and her true self wouldn't let her make a decision like that signifies that in her heart of hearts she had genuine doubts about Jonathan.

    This stage in the Lois and Clark relationship feels somewhat like the stage they went through on Smallville in Season 6 or 7, when Clark was pursuing Lana and Lois was either with Oliver Queen or her editor, Grant Gabriel. Neither of those relationships lasted, but they did help illuminate and develop the characters further. This is one step on their romantic journey that will hopefully be handled well going forward.
    Well, in Superman issue 2, when Clark is apologizing for arriving unanounced and well......clearly disturbing them, she says Johnattan is "just a friend from out of town wanting to share my good fortune". Kinda sounds more like the description of a sex friend than a romantic relationship to me (at least, I know that if I was describing my girlfriend as "just a friend" and she founf out about it, I would be a dead man) .
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  9. #219

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    I've been losing interest in the Superman comics lately, but this issue was definitely a solid upgrade. It was the kind of issue I had been waiting for since Justice League #12. We finally get a chance to see Clark and Lois chat about recent events and they finally have a chance to get personal. It was a great moment and one that I wish would have lasted a bit longer, but Supergirl made sure that didn't happen. I figure that the reaction to Superman and Wonder Woman's relationship will be explored in Justice League, but it's nice to see some connections for the Superman books.

    But aside from Lois's interaction with Clark, I like how He'el is pitting Supergirl against her cousin. It really highlights the differences between them. Clark was just a baby when he left Krypton. He doesn't remember enough of it to really miss it. But Supergirl does remember and the promise of rebuilding it on some level definitely has appeal to her. It's the kind of internal conflict within the Superman family that we haven't seen for a while and I think it gives this whole arc a lot of promise. Overall, this was the best issue of Superman in quite some time and I hope the quality continues for the rest of the arc.

    But I still maintain that the Death of the Family in Batman is better.
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  10. #220
    Ghost of Perdition Nocturnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Skill View Post
    Man I must be the only one who doesn't want Lois and Clark together, bickering couples in fiction was never my thing.
    Seconded and you are not alone bro. There are many who feels it's bland, uninteresting and most often than not, Lois's unrelenting bigmouth pisses me off silly - she just keeps going - yappin' away like there is no tomorrow. Put a cork in it Lois, ffs.
    The reason people do not voice their opinion as much is from the fear of getting crushed under walls. You'll will know what I mean --soon.
    Last edited by Nocturnus; 12-03-2012 at 06:00 AM.

  11. #221
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Skill View Post
    Man I must be the only one who doesn't want Lois and Clark together, bickering couples in fiction was never my thing.
    Yeah man you're not alone. While their love story is may favorite in comics for what it represents and well the fit for one another, I just feel like trying something new. I'd like to see the relationship with Wonder Woman because it's so very taboo for both Superman and Wonder Woman. I'd love to see it taken seriously and have it become the staple of the new 52 for some time if not till the next reboot....just to see what it's like, ya know.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Skill View Post
    Man I must be the only one who doesn't want Lois and Clark together, bickering couples in fiction was never my thing.
    As several posters already pointed out, you are not alone. I am also tired of the whole Clark/Lois thing. In my opinion she is not very likeable, no matter which incarnation and Clark deserves someone far better. But she has decades of history, so unfortunately in the end he will end with her.
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  13. #223
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverYoung8 View Post
    I posted this in the other thread, but I don't know which is the main one:

    I guess I'll be the one to bring it up. A possible short-lived romance between a couple of friends?

    Lois: "At least your own, personal, mattress of solitude remains untouched."

    Clark: "Just the way you left it."

    Moments later...

    Lois: "Time's change, Clark. That doesn't mean we have to. What we have--had--our friendship is stronger than that."

    Clark: "Friends. Interesting."

    And then he goes into his spiel about Lois' boyfriend.

    I'm not saying they dated, specifically, but it appears that *something* happened at some point between 2 best friends. Lois' comment of "what we have", quickly followed by her correcting herself to "had", is interesting. But mostly it's Clark's comment of "Just the way you left it" in reference to his bed. She says it "remains untouched", in reference to Jimmy's mess, but Clark's reaction read, to me, like someone saying "nobody's been in it since you".

    I'm probably reading too much into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    I don't think they dated, not in the classic sense of the word at least. I suppose it is possible that they had a one night thing, or that they had a brief "sex friend" period befre deciding it was complicating things, but it would be kind of ballsy of DC to do that. It could also mean nothing, except that she has visited his bedroom before.
    I noticed this, too. Friends with benefits, perhaps? Or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    In Superman #1 Lois pretty emphatically told Jonathan nothing ever happened between them, and it seems like, at least in the sense of the Lois and Clark dynamic, that Lobdell's honoring that run so I'm going to assume nothing's ever happened between them. Of course I suppose that scene could always be given a new interpretation and make it so Lois is just lying to Jonathan when she said nothing ever happened between them. But for now I'll take it for face value.
    This. Perhaps they're just joking.
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  14. #224
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    For me all will be forgiven in regard to his goofy jealous behavior if after this arc's resolution, and some moral lessons along the way, an epilogue has a genuinely happy (and clean shaven for god's sake) Clark showing up at Jon and Lois's door with a housewarming present. Now that would be classic Clark.
    Perhaps he'll agree to double-date? Lois and Jon with Clark and Diana? Now that would be interesting.
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye Len (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

  15. #225
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I don't have a problem with Clark's characterization, especially because it's acknowledged in the book (by the character himself nonetheless!) it's not right. He's confused and frustrated right now, and I've always hated this whole notion that Clark should be perfect and can't ever act immature at times. It happens to the best of us.
    Agreed. I remember when people complained (and some still do) that Superman was too perfect, that he needed to be more "human" and stuff. Enter (for example) Superman Returns. People see the movie and then accuse freakin' Superman of being a Super-stalker and deadbeat dad... *sigh*

    I guess this kind of thing will always be around.
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye Len (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

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