Superman, #14

[Kymeric]

H'el was supposed to be new Bizzarro right....

What if he's an insane clone... Made before Superboy... That's why he has a grudge on him...

This possibility is in the back of my mind throughout this issue. H'El could be the 01 cloning pod that was shown in Superboy.

[El Sombrero]

I thought this issue was weaker than the last two (the zero issue and #13)...it seemed lower on big ideas, and the dialogue was really, really bad in places. A lot of Superman's lines didn't sound like him at all, and Supergirl's dialogue was inconsistent. The issue was still supported by outstanding art, although a few of the transitions between pages felt abrupt and a little awkward.

I like the idea of H'el as being part of a "test flight" for Superman's classic escape pod, and H'el getting lost in time so he predates Superman by a bit. Really like him getting Kara on his side, as that makes sense, and I like how they are bringing the Super-characters together finally. But I thought H'el became a clear-cut villain too early...we all know he's going to be a villain but I would have preferred to keep him more neutral or antiheroic, sort of Magneto-like. The fighting scenes with Superman vs H'el or H'el brainwashing Kara, threatening Superboy, that felt rushed and prevented the buildup of any kind of drama.

So yeah, a letdown from the first two Lobdell / Rocafort issues. Honestly it's a good thing Rocafort is Rocafort because from a scripting perspective I did not think this was very good.

[Vic Vega]

The whole point of Clark Kent is that he's a beta male.

Classic Clark yeah.

I've been reading Action mostly so I really don't have a handle on THIS Clark yet.

I've been hoping for a jumping on point for this book.

[Xarcon]

I thought this issue was weaker than the last two (the zero issue and #13)...it seemed lower on big ideas, and the dialogue was really, really bad in places. A lot of Superman's lines didn't sound like him at all, and Supergirl's dialogue was inconsistent. The issue was still supported by outstanding art, although a few of the transitions between pages felt abrupt and a little awkward.

I like the idea of H'el as being part of a "test flight" for Superman's classic escape pod, and H'el getting lost in time so he predates Superman by a bit. Really like him getting Kara on his side, as that makes sense, and I like how they are bringing the Super-characters together finally. But I thought H'el became a clear-cut villain too early...we all know he's going to be a villain but I would have preferred to keep him more neutral or antiheroic, sort of Magneto-like. The fighting scenes with Superman vs H'el or H'el brainwashing Kara, threatening Superboy, that felt rushed and prevented the buildup of any kind of drama.

So yeah, a letdown from the first two Lobdell / Rocafort issues. Honestly it's a good thing Rocafort is Rocafort because from a scripting perspective I did not think this was very good.

I agree with pretty much all of that. The dialogue is a real chore to read and does not sound natural at all. It was like Lobdell was trying way too hard to make the characters sound intelligent and it backfired. And I definitely agree that H'el was "outed" as a villain too early. We still have nine issues of this crossover to get through. I was hoping there would be some drama, some character moments, anything like that. Instead, it looks like this is just going to be a straight-up action/battle story. I want some emotion. The whole issue just felt really forced and rushed with everything. Rocafort's art is great as usual, but I think I'll be dropping the series once the crossover is finished.

[jackson2171]

You know, you are going to have to accept that Superman and Wonder Woman are an item now and not being outraged every time you see her face in the comic. For your sake I mean, because it's probably going to happen quite a lot.
The position of the huge panel is perfectly logical since it is connected to the fact that Lois is aking him about the girlfriend he has and the fact he can't really answer. It made sense to have him struggling to answer and to have the panel showing why he's struggling to.

I stopped buying comics for the longest time. However I intend to buy this story arc only for this reason. Superman and Wonder Woman are a awesome pair. I cannot wait to see how they write it. Nothing beats a great story. I intend to give it a shot and if it works out may even look into some other books while there. Firestorm green lantern and maybe....just maybe...The Flash....used to be pretty good reads. However its up to the writer , the story and the world they are in. What makes a great story? Wonder Woman and Superman that is a good start. Then from there the plot becomes thick the world becomes silent and we darken the lights and watch...I see to many people that refuse to open up on the possible. I for one cannot wait for the read and give them a chance... As for the other ones with Lois...I am not a Lois fan. Plus i have tons of Lois lane books , Bring on fresh and new. I hope it works out....I for one have purchased books and not had the writers try. Best of luck tot he writing staff and the artist and all the people that can make this happen.

[ForeverYoung8]

I posted this in the other thread, but I don't know which is the main one:

I guess I'll be the one to bring it up. A possible short-lived romance between a couple of friends?

Lois: "At least your own, personal, mattress of solitude remains untouched."

Clark: "Just the way you left it."

Moments later...

Lois: "Time's change, Clark. That doesn't mean we have to. What we have--had--our friendship is stronger than that."

Clark: "Friends. Interesting."

And then he goes into his spiel about Lois' boyfriend.

I'm not saying they dated, specifically, but it appears that *something* happened at some point between 2 best friends. Lois' comment of "what we have", quickly followed by her correcting herself to "had", is interesting. But mostly it's Clark's comment of "Just the way you left it" in reference to his bed. She says it "remains untouched", in reference to Jimmy's mess, but Clark's reaction read, to me, like someone saying "nobody's been in it since you".

I'm probably reading too much into it.

[Auguste Dupin]

I posted this in the other thread, but I don't know which is the main one:

I guess I'll be the one to bring it up. A possible short-lived romance between a couple of friends?

Lois: "At least your own, personal, mattress of solitude remains untouched."

Clark: "Just the way you left it."

Moments later...

Lois: "Time's change, Clark. That doesn't mean we have to. What we have--had--our friendship is stronger than that."

Clark: "Friends. Interesting."

And then he goes into his spiel about Lois' boyfriend.

I'm not saying they dated, specifically, but it appears that *something* happened at some point between 2 best friends. Lois' comment of "what we have", quickly followed by her correcting herself to "had", is interesting. But mostly it's Clark's comment of "Just the way you left it" in reference to his bed. She says it "remains untouched", in reference to Jimmy's mess, but Clark's reaction read, to me, like someone saying "nobody's been in it since you".

I'm probably reading too much into it.

I don't think they dated, not in the classic sense of the word at least. I suppose it is possible that they had a one night thing, or that they had a brief "sex friend" period befre deciding it was complicating things, but it would be kind of ballsy of DC to do that. It could also mean nothing, except that she has visited his bedroom before.

[George Taylor]

A good read. Rocafort's art is just amazing, I'd like he stays for the long haul. Some parts of the dialogue were weird and bit expository, which I think worrks perfectly with the character. I think this event will be interesting and better than the Night of the Owls one. Superman protecting Superboy from H'el, even if he doesn't know the boy perfectly, is great.

H'el comes as an interesting villain and as hell of a liar, he surely knows his story is fake. I wonder who the other two aliens are? I don't think Lar Gand is one of them, but who knows.

Looking forward for the next isue.

[Sacred Knight]

In Superman #1 Lois pretty emphatically told Jonathan nothing ever happened between them, and it seems like, at least in the sense of the Lois and Clark dynamic, that Lobdell's honoring that run so I'm going to assume nothing's ever happened between them. Of course I suppose that scene could always be given a new interpretation and make it so Lois is just lying to Jonathan when she said nothing ever happened between them. But for now I'll take it for face value.

[Rainzo]

I don't think they dated, not in the classic sense of the word at least. I suppose it is possible that they had a one night thing, or that they had a brief "sex friend" period befre deciding it was complicating things, but it would be kind of ballsy of DC to do that. It could also mean nothing, except that she has visited his bedroom before.

Or maybe she bought his sheets and laid his bed for him :D

[Sacred Knight]

Or maybe she helped him move and literally was the one who set up his bed there. To be honest when I first read it I was torn between whether his joke was that or a little "inappropriate"
banter between friends. I still can't say for sure what the intent was there in the writing.

[misslane38]

In Superman #1 Lois pretty emphatically told Jonathan nothing ever happened between them, and it seems like, at least in the sense of the Lois and Clark dynamic, that Lobdell's honoring that run so I'm going to assume nothing's ever happened between them. Of course I suppose that scene could always be given a new interpretation and make it so Lois is just lying to Jonathan when she said nothing ever happened between them. But for now I'll take it for face value.

I'm also assuming nothing has ever happened between Lois and Clark, so I agree with your interpretation.

Or maybe she helped him move and literally was the one who set up his bed there. To be honest when I first read it I was torn between whether his joke was that or a little "inappropriate" banter between friends. I still can't say for sure what the intent was there in the writing.

I'm leaning more towards the "inappropriate" banter idea, which leaves me conflicted. I'm conflicted because either I have to accept that Lobdell's Clark is a bit of a jerk -- not a huge leap to make given the "booty call" line -- or I have to conclude Lobdell wrote the line intending for it to be ambiguous. Personally, I don't think it should require this much analysis to figure out something so simple. It's bad writing.

[Volkditty]

Lois: "Your mattress remains untouched"
Clark: "Just the way you left it"

Lois never touched his mattress. They didn't sleep together. I'm not sure what ambiguity anyone is seeing there.

[Flash Gordon]

I'm leaning more towards the "inappropriate" banter idea, which leaves me conflicted. I'm conflicted because either I have to accept that Lobdell's Clark is a bit of a jerk -- not a huge leap to make given the "booty call" line -- or I have to conclude Lobdell wrote the line intending for it to be ambiguous. Personally, I don't think it should require this much analysis to figure out something so simple. It's bad writing.

How's it bad writing? Does he need to come out and state exactly when/if they've had sex?

[misslane38]

Lois: "Your mattress remains untouched"
Clark: "Just the way you left it"

Lois never touched his mattress. They didn't sleep together. I'm not sure what ambiguity anyone is seeing there.

The ambiguity is the reason why it was left untouched. Was it left untouched because Clark wanted to sleep with Lois and she declined or was it left untouched because Clark didn't even get so far as to actually make a move?

How's it bad writing? Does he need to come out and state exactly when/if they've had sex?

Yes, actually, I think it would be good to know if Clark ever did indicate to Lois that he wanted to be more than friends. I'd like to know if the reason Clark and Lois have only ever been best friends is because Lois turned him down or because he never took a chance at all.

In either case, by the way, Clark's statement about his untouched mattress is rude and way out of line. It's an awful thing to say and it makes Clark sound like a massive tool. The "booty call" line was already bad, but this line was too much.