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  1. #1246

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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    My last words on the topic: your hypertext theory in regards to Morrison's work makes sense in certain regards. There's a good argument to be made for Morrison's work being interactive (which is the real crux of the mattter here, as it relates to any hypertext claims).
    Good enough. I'll quit while I'm ahead, and stop reading the rest of your comment, hehe.
    Last edited by Rafa-Rivas-2099; 12-11-2012 at 10:49 PM.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  2. #1247
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    Good enough, I'll quit while I'm ahead an stop reading.
    I take it all back.

  3. #1248

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    Ok, since I'm already engaged in the FC thing, I better ask, how was Darkseid altering time and space? I didn't find it as clear as how he was submitting people... when did he find the anti-life equation?

    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    I take it all back.
    Whaaaat?! hahaha, it might make me engage in further discussions. I don't want to know if I disagree with any of the rest. Just saying.

    Btw, I think "interactive" is a smarter choice of word, to describe when Morrison does that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    Hey, look who I found!
    ...yes, very amusing.
    Last edited by Rafa-Rivas-2099; 12-11-2012 at 11:05 PM.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  4. #1249
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    Orion's death coexisted with what? Specifically with what that was out of his time, he lived in the current era. The only time anomalies are Kamandi, the bullet and the weird panel thing with the SYT at the middle of #7
    If the bullet is a time anomaly then so is everything that was hit by that bulelt, including Orion. He was found dead at the beginning of the story, in Gotham, but died a long way from there, far into the future.

    I don't think the Darkseid falling thing woul justify the Kamandi anomaly. Firstly, the anomaly happened twice before the fall, secondly, why just Kamandi? I think I solved (or fond out) this back in the day.
    Sigh. Darkseid's death is shattering time and space. There is no 'before the fall' anymore. All events are happening at once.

    It's a pretty simple question, would you have a problem reading FC without Final Crisis: Revelations?
    No. Why do you keep asking this? Why is that in any way at all relevant?
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  5. #1250
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    I think Orion is not an anomaly at all, Morrison was going with the Contdown to FC ending, in which Orion is the only surviving god. I think you're right and he dies in Death of the New Gods, but it's ignored by both Countdown and FC.
    The first issue of Final Crisis was written and set in stone long before the final issue of Frelling Countdown came out.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  6. #1251
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    I have no idea what "space cabinet" or "Richard streetlamp" are.
    Random words that, much like 'hypertext nodes', have absolutely no meaning in the context of the discussion.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  7. #1252
    Elder Member Karl O'Neill's Avatar
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    So Rafa, you think it is the tie-ins that make Final Crisis a hyper-text?

    Kamandi's time displacement is not the only anomaly in the story, we also have the Nazi-Supergirl from a parallel universe crashing into the Dcu.
    I'm sure there are more examples.
    It seems when Darkseid was dying and falling back through time, a being so cosmically powerful and evil is rupturing the time-space continuum itself.
    "You can't trust them as poets either. The true poet is anonymous, as to his habits, but these boys have to look, act, and apparently smell like poets"
    Flannery O'Connor on the beats.

  8. #1253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    Anomaly, is that how writers call continuity errors these days?
    He fixed the continuity errors by introduzing an anomaly that fit the story he was telling. Meaning the continuity error was made a part of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    Yes, the story said time was collapsing, but just making Kamandi appear is kind of a weak way of showing. And the Orion thin is not going to cause much of a shock either (the way it was set a reader is more likely to think "oh, continuity error"), compare that with CoIE's dinosaurs and multiple versions on the same street, or Zero Hours rain of Hawkmen and Batmen.
    Why is it weak? A guy from the future shows up at the beginning of the human race. That's a pretty good way of showing time is screwed up.

  9. #1254
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Sigh. Darkseid's death is shattering time and space. There is no 'before the fall' anymore. All events are happening at once.
    Yes! I wasn't remembering this part, but yes, that's it. I wish I had remembered that sooner -.-'

  10. #1255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl O'Neill View Post
    Kamandi's time displacement is not the only anomaly in the story, we also have the Nazi-Supergirl from a parallel universe crashing into the Dcu.
    I'm sure there are more examples.
    I can think of, at the very least, the Aquaman that showed up. Morrison said he was supposed to be an Aquaman from another universe, but that DC could use the door that he left open (comparing Aquaman to the Arthur of legend, that is said to return on a time of great need) to make him simply the old Aquaman ressurected.

  11. #1256
    Elder Member Froggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    I think the reason Morrison is so hairless is that he knows he could never grow an epic beard like Moore's, and if he tried he'd only come off like a pale imitation.

    Better to be "No-Beard" than "Little-Beard". At least then Morrison can play it off like the beard doesn't even matter to him (but of course it does).
    the beard is the source of moore's wicked chaos powers

    morrison's come from his shiny dome

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny P. Sartre View Post
    That and male pattern baldness

    the truth is out

    I read Final Crisis w/o reading revelations

    'sup?
    Last edited by Froggy; 12-12-2012 at 09:21 AM.
    they label me a villain cause of how I express my feelings

  12. #1257
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froggy View Post
    the beard is the source of moore's wicked chaos powers

    morrison's come from his shiny dome
    All-Beard vs No-Beard for the fate of the NYC Subway system.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #1258
    Elder Member Froggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    All-Beard vs No-Beard for the fate of the NYC Subway system.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    They are like Xorn and Zorn

    one cannot exist without the other

    if there were ever to be a victor in their conflict, we'd all perish
    they label me a villain cause of how I express my feelings

  14. #1259

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    He fixed the continuity errors by introduzing an anomaly that fit the story he was telling. Meaning the continuity error was made a part of the story.



    Why is it weak? A guy from the future shows up at the beginning of the human race. That's a pretty good way of showing time is screwed up.
    On itself it's pretty good. Awesome, actually. But that's it? Even if you count Orion, that one is only a shock to people who read Death of the New Gods. I did, an I had forgotten by the time I read FC #1. Then you have Nazi-Supergirl, as Karl pointed... which is not impressive at all, a hero crossing universes is pretty standard. Again, compare that with the time anomalies in CoIE or Zero Hour.


    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    If the bullet is a time anomaly then so is everything that was hit by that bulelt, including Orion. He was found dead at the beginning of the story, in Gotham, but died a long way from there, far into the future.

    Sigh. Darkseid's death is shattering time and space. There is no 'before the fall' anymore. All events are happening at once.

    No. Why do you keep asking this? Why is that in any way at all relevant?
    I don't think the time traveling of the bullet is an effect of the fall. So even if the Orion thing is an anomaly, it wouldn't be related to the ones (Kamandi so far, maybe Nazi-Supergirl)

    Well, Countdown to FC and stories printed before FC #1, would be before the fall, since the effects of the fall didn't go back past that point. The question would be where is it specified. DC Universe #0 shows Darkseid falling (thank's, Bruce)... but from the looks of it I think that's the fall after Orion killed him.

    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    The first issue of Final Crisis was written and set in stone long before the final issue of Freelling Countdown came out.
    So, the Death fo the New Gods was probably done before FC#1, and, consequently before the end of Contdown.
    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Random words that, much like 'hypertext nodes', have absolutely no meaning in the context of the discussion.
    Then, I think both are making conjectures based on the way it sounds. Odd, since it's pretty googleable (both in web and books). If we're talking that something is hypertext, even if it is printed fiction, nodes and links wold have to be identified, and they could even be represented in a diagram. Kind of like a Gantt or a CPM chart, if a couple of visual analogies help (don't go to deep into it, they work differently):

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Rafa-Rivas-2099; 12-12-2012 at 03:00 PM.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  15. #1260
    More human than human. Johnny P. Sartre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    All-Beard vs No-Beard for the fate of the NYC Subway system.

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    I never caught that.
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