Alan Moore vs Grant Morrison

[Bruce Kent]

Good sir I just slogged through Supergods. The notion of an 'uncomplaining' Morrison strikes me as incredibly rich now.

Are you replying to the right post?

[Johnny P. Sartre]

Good sir I just slogged through Supergods. The notion of an 'uncomplaining' Morrison strikes me as incredibly rich now.

He complains but not as much

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

No, the question still makes no sense. He simply translated it.

I think he's speaking of the big picture, not the question. Wait, what? You read Spanish? How do you know I didn't modify it?

So, tie-in -> hypertext? Meaning almost every event ever had hypertext in it?

In this case, it's both a tie-in and a hypertext node. Tie-ins relate but doesn't really (or necesarely?) matter to the main story, by contrast, the hypertext nodes are integral part of them. Then we have crossovers, which have the same story, moving from one title to another but in a specific order (meaning they are linear).

[Bruce Kent]

I think he's speaking of the big picture, not the question. Wait, what? You read Spanish? How do you know I didn't modify it?

I understand Spanish.

In this case, it's both a tie-in and a hypertext node. Tie-ins relate but doesn't really (or necesarely?) matter to the main story, by contrast, the hypertext nodes are integral part of them. Then we have crossovers, which have the same story, moving from one title to another but in a specific order (meaning they are linear).

Yeah, I think you're just sticking to the hypertext thing so that you don't have to admit you were wrong. Superman Beyong was a tie-in. Why the need to apply a grandious term that doesn't really fit? I can think of other tie-ins that did similar stuff.

[Tobias March]

Are you replying to the right post?

Yes, you picked me up on my response to the other poster so I replied to you.

[direction9]

"hypertext node" is literally as random and as meaningless a shorthand for what you're trying to to say as is "space cabinet" or "Richard streetlamp".
superman beyond is indeed a richard streetlamp and a tie-in, i agree

[Bruce Kent]

Yes, you picked me up on my response to the other poster so I replied to you.

Yes, but the right post from me? What you said has nothing to do with what I said. You mentioned a lot of situations, from which only one was related to the subject you had replied to.

[carabas]

Doesn't Superman get the "Happiness" "Wishing" machine from the 31st century?

Yes. But that's almost like literally just the last page from #5 of a five-issue (IMO terminally boring) story that has nothing to do with Final Crisis.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

Orion's death, if I recall correctly.




Unless I'm completely wrong (and I would ask someone like direction9 or tylenoljones to confirm this, please), Darkseid was falling through the universes, collapsing everything. That was happening during FC too, so the universe would've died without the Miracle Machine. Time was messed up and that was what made Kamandi displaced.

(I have no problem explaining what I remember from the story to you, but I'm still not seeing any hypertext connection)



It makes as much sense in spanish as it did in english: 0. And I'm better at english than spanish, so you just go back and see that what you asked makes no sense as a reply to what I said.

Orion's death coexisted with what? Specifically with what that was out of his time, he lived in the current era. The only time anomalies are Kamandi, the bullet and the weird panel thing with the SYT at the middle of #7

I don't think the Darkseid falling thing woul justify the Kamandi anomaly. Firstly, the anomaly happened twice before the fall, secondly, why just Kamandi? I think I solved (or fond out) this back in the day.

I was pulling your led with the translation. Spanish sounds funny in English context, specially if yo imagine Will Farrell's reading it. It's a pretty simple question, would you have a problem reading FC without Final Crisis: Revelations? If you do, what would that problem be?

[direction9]

Orion's death coexisted with what? Specifically with what that was out of his time, he lived in the current era. The only time anomalies are Kamandi, the bullet and the weird panel thing with the SYT at the middle of #7

I don't think the Darkseid falling thing woul justify the Kamandi anomaly. Firstly, the anomaly happened twice before the fall, secondly, why just Kamandi? I think I solved (or fond out) this back in the day.

I was pulling your led with the translation. Spanish sounds funny in English context, specially if yo imagine Will Farrell's reading it. It's a pretty simple question, would you have a problem reading FC without Final Crisis: Revelations? If you do, what would that problem be?

well the answer is no but the question is why did you ask that question

[Bruce Kent]

Orion's death coexisted with what? Specifically with what that was out of his time, he lived in the current era. The only time anomalies are Kamandi, the bullet and the weird panel thing with the SYT at the middle of #7

Several versions of his death, Morrison's way of incorporating Death of New Gods and Countdown to the story.

I don't think the Darkseid falling thing woul justify the Kamandi anomaly. Firstly, the anomaly happened twice before the fall, secondly, why just Kamandi? I think I solved (or fond out) this back in the day.

It does because Morrison said so. He didn't fell at the end, he fell before.
Why just Kamandi? Because Morrison wanted Kamandi in the story. Maybe (probably) because Kamandi was the last living human on the destiny that awaited the Earth as it was, so he was the only one that could fall on our timeline. I don't remember, it was 4 years ago and I'm not searching the internet to give you these answers.

I was pulling your led with the translation. Spanish sounds funny in English context, specially if yo imagine Will Farrell's reading it. It's a pretty simple question, would you have a problem reading FC without Final Crisis: Revelations? If you do, what would that problem be?

No, you wouldn't. What's the point of that question? How does that relate to anything?

[Tobias March]

Yes, but the right post from me? What you said has nothing to do with what I said. You mentioned a lot of situations, from which only one was related to the subject you had replied to.

A very broad statement which you decided to correct me on. How are you confused?

Both men were/are writers for hire. Both wrote to editorial mandate. Both have made a lot of money for their publishers. One decided that was not a situation he was happy with, the other stuck with it until the present day. This notion that Moore does not collaborate well, does not work to a brief, hates comics - implies the person has not read a Moore comic.

Each of those circumstances I listed addressed a different aspect of Moore's writing - either working to a brief, refining a concept given to him, supporting the careers of others and citing the work of other creators that have inspired him.

The guy can be a jerk sometimes - we base this assessment on reported comments and his refusal to write comics for two large companies that make a lot of money from decades of franchise tweaking. Fair enough, it's an opinion. But this whole versus argument - Morrison did this, so Moore did the opposite; Morrison likes DC, Moore hates DC - is utterly trite.

I find it interesting that the contention often offered is Moore's beefs with so many creators. This also apparently makes him a big smelly jerk. Stan Lee has had just as many, if not more, acrimonious relations with notable creators. He's a living saint. I find this intriguing.

You corrected me, you engaged me, I respond. No need to school me on forum etiquette. You've made your position clear. It just makes little to no sense to me to pick a side in this spurious argument. Everything being offered here to support either Moore or Morrison is just personal opinion. Frankly I'd rather just read their books.

[Johnny P. Sartre]

Can a mod just lock this thread?

It's definitely run it's course.

[Bruce Kent]

A very broad statement which you decided to correct me on. How are you confused?

Both men were/are writers for hire. Both wrote to editorial mandate. Both have made a lot of money for their publishers. One decided that was not a situation he was happy with, the other stuck with it until the present day. This notion that Moore does not collaborate well, does not work to a brief, hates comics - implies the person has not read a Moore comic.

Each of those circumstances I listed addressed a different aspect of Moore's writing - either working to a brief, refining a concept given to him, supporting the careers of others and citing the work of other creators that have inspired him.

The guy can be a jerk sometimes - we base this assessment on reported comments and his refusal to write comics for two large companies that make a lot of money from decades of franchise tweaking. Fair enough, it's an opinion. But this whole versus argument - Morrison did this, so Moore did the opposite; Morrison likes DC, Moore hates DC - is utterly trite.

I find it interesting that the contention often offered is Moore's beefs with so many creators. This also apparently makes him a big smelly jerk. Stan Lee has had just as many, if not more, acrimonious relations with notable creators. He's a living saint. I find this intriguing.

You corrected me, you engaged me, I respond. No need to school me on forum etiquette. You've made your position clear. It just makes little to no sense to me to pick a side in this spurious argument. Everything being offered here to support either Moore or Morrison is just personal opinion. Frankly I'd rather just read their books.

What?

Look:
Direction9 said this

i hate that the shout-out to legion of three worlds was included, but morrison just plays ball and has no problem being really inclusive and taking whatever's thrown at him
which is kinda the anti-moore approach in a way

to which you said this:

American Gothic is derailed by Crisis on Infinite Earths and produces one of the best scenes of the crossover.

Supreme takes a derivative Rob Liefeld character and produces a very thoughtful retrospective on the Superman character.

How much of a leg-up in his career has Anthony Johnston received from Moore giving him permission to adapt his prose writings for Avatar?

LoEG is a fantastic tribute to decades of forgotten creators. Hell Promethea introduced me to the work of John Kendrick Bangs, who is pretty tops.

I wish folks would stop indulging in this versus narrative - which I understand is the whole point of the thread, but it is so needless.

and I said only your first point

American Gothic is derailed by Crisis on Infinite Earths and produces one of the best scenes of the crossover.

relates to what direction9 said. Quite simple to understand, I think.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

I freely admitted where my info came from in that post. I even quoted it, instead of just pretending the words were my own.

Regardless, your posts are clearly showing that you've been making up your arguments as you go, making pretty bold claims about topics you're not that knowledgeable of; and even though you don't have all the facts yourself (or even a strong understanding of the terms you're using) you have no problem telling everyone else how wrong they are.

This is pretty hypocritical behavior from a person who had no qualms about insulting the intelligence of certain folks here for seemingly not understanding things that you yourself clearly didn't understand at the time.

Not making it up, backing it. Have you ever done an academic investigation? ... Calm down, I just mean an overly complicated thing, just the way a teacher would scrutinize your investigation assignments, making sure every claim is backed with a reference. That's the way these things work. I made a claim based on something I'm sure I read a while back, the first time I just made sure there was sources backing it. "Didn't understand at the time"? My position on what hypertext does in printed fiction has always been the same.

However, this is moot, your main argument here is against me, not my point. It's useless.