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  1. #991
    Veteran Member direction9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    What the hell did you have for breakfast?

    Anyway, I don't think that's a narrow thing. Hell, even I can be called one. However, I find it contradictory to be blindly in love with everything he has done while blatantly denying influences and homages that have been admittedly done by himself (Borges and labyrinths). It's like loving, say, Muse and denying its Queen influences. Then again, why not, maybe one can be a fan and an absolute idiot at the same time.
    that would be indeed contradictory if anyone was doing that

  2. #992
    Hey, Larry! Darrell D.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Well, i suppose he could have multiple reasons for leaving.
    Another I heard was a feud about the Green Goblin's secret identity. Lee wanted him to be, well , Osborn, Ditko wanted him to be a nobody, because of his belief that crime didn't follow any determinism.
    I heard that, as well, it's the most famous story.
    But, given the outright shadiness of Goodman (and by extension, Lee), and the way he was famous for screwing artists anyway he can, the royalty story sounds more realistic and believable.

  3. #993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    That's a great point... Stan didn't create much after Kirby and Ditko...


    I liked the She-Hulk.
    and Stripperella.

  4. #994
    Hey, Larry! Darrell D.'s Avatar
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    She-Hulk was less of a creation, and more of a 'Hey, let's protect our Hulk trademark, since we have the character in a hit TV show!'

  5. #995
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    I would have placed Gaiman above Miller, myself. Sandman has won literary awards, and Neil is also a celebrated novelist and screenwriter.
    Neil Gaiman is bigger novelist and more known than Frank Miller in the more mainstream world of books of course. He is known for his fantasy books and much more than he is known for an important Vertigo comics. But i dont think he is as important in american comics field as Frank Miller of the 80s and early 90s. The man who defined Batman comics and the gritty comics decades that followed it. Dark Knight Returns,Year One is huge superhero classic. He is also the most acclaimed Daredevil writer ever and Born Again and Elektra dying in early 1980s of DD comics is important. Plus Sin City.

    Sandman is not enough on its own to compete with a man who will always be known for defining Batman and decades later of superhero comics after and writing noir,ninja DD that is classic Marvel stories. If superhero field was a tiny genre in american comics and only then can Neil Gaiman single famous Vertigo comics compete with the legacy of Frank Miller.

    He might crazy and a hack now but he is like Alan Moore and Watchman modern classics of superhero field.
    Pull List:
    The Walking Dead,Fatale,Near Death,Storm Dogs,Happy,BPRD,XO-Manowar
    American Vampire,Animal Man,Swamp Thing
    Daredevil, Winter Soldier,Indestructible Hulk

  6. #996
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    However, I find it contradictory to be blindly in love with everything he has done while blatantly denying influences and homages that have been admittedly done by himself (Borges and labyrinths).
    I lol'd.

    (10 char)

  7. #997
    Hey, Larry! Darrell D.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    Neil Gaiman is bigger novelist and more known than Frank Miller in the more mainstream world of books of course. He is known for his fantasy books and much more than he is known for an important Vertigo comics. But i dont think he is as important in american comics field as Frank Miller of the 80s and early 90s. The man who defined Batman comics and the gritty comics decades that followed it. Dark Knight Returns,Year One is huge superhero classic. He is also the most acclaimed Daredevil writer ever and Born Again and Elektra dying in early 1980s of DD comics is important. Plus Sin City.

    Sandman is not enough on its own to compete with a man who will always be known for defining Batman and decades later of superhero comics after and writing noir,ninja DD that is classic Marvel stories. If superhero field was a tiny genre in american comics and only then can Neil Gaiman single famous Vertigo comics compete with the legacy of Frank Miller.

    He might crazy and a hack now but he is like Alan Moore and Watchman modern classics of superhero field.
    Gaiman is more recognizable for Sandman and his work than Miller is for Batman, especially outside of the comics culture.
    Miller's Batman work is still a part of the insular super-hero genre, while Gaiman's work was praised outside the community.

  8. #998
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell D. View Post
    Gaiman is more recognizable for Sandman and his work than Miller is for Batman, especially outside of the comics culture.
    Miller's Batman work is still a part of the insular super-hero genre, while Gaiman's work was praised outside the community.
    Thats my point exactly. Gaiman is smaller than Miller in american comics and Miller is not as known as Gaiman in book world. Sandman is known outside comics culture only because its Gaiman who wrote it. They know it because they have read his novels. I wasnt talking about outside the community, Gaiman work is outside the community. He is a novelist mostly. Sandman is hailed and loved by smaller group of comic fans. He is not Alan Moore level in other genres of comics. I would rank Moore,Miller before him seeing as how their comics is respected decades later today.
    Pull List:
    The Walking Dead,Fatale,Near Death,Storm Dogs,Happy,BPRD,XO-Manowar
    American Vampire,Animal Man,Swamp Thing
    Daredevil, Winter Soldier,Indestructible Hulk

  9. #999
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    By now, the mention of Borges and labyrinths is simply making me laugh.

  10. #1000
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    By now, the mention of Borges and labyrinths is simply making me laugh.
    Yeah, I wasn't joking in that earlier post. I laughed loud enough at that last mention that my wife gave me that annoyed "what's wrong with you?" look.

  11. #1001

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    I liked the She-Hulk.
    and Stripperella.
    I know, great teenage fantasy, but still doesn't make him prolific as a character creator without Kirby and Ditko.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  12. #1002

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Beast Of Yucca Flats View Post
    Let's be frank here; all that still doesn't magically make Neonomicon not ghastly shit.
    Still, I'd take that over the best of Johns, Winick or Robinson any day. (In fact, I'd take literal ghastly shit over them ;S )
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  13. #1003
    Hey, Larry! Darrell D.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    Still, I'd take that over the best of Johns, Winick or Robinson any day. (In fact, I'd take literal ghastly shit over them ;S )
    To be fair, those guys know only how to write super-hero books. Moore can write some many different types of genre, they are even near the bottom of his league.

  14. #1004

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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    Yeah, I wasn't joking in that earlier post. I laughed loud enough at that last mention that my wife gave me that annoyed "what's wrong with you?" look.
    I don't even remember, but I think I put the parenthesis on purpose. However, I missed the origin of the joke.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  15. #1005

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell D. View Post
    To be fair, those guys know only how to write super-hero books. Moore can write some many different types of genre, they are even near the bottom of his league.
    Robinson gave screenwriting a shot, but failed miserably. By the way, he's responsible for ruining the LOEG film.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

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