Alan Moore vs Grant Morrison

[king mob]

What Moore has done is respectable obviously, but again I don't really see the problem if someone goes a different route, culturally. If I earned fame and money, I'd probably do something similar.

Depends if you want to be respected as way as lapping up the fame, money and groupies. There's far too many creators who have their heads firmly up their own arses when they come into money and fame, and then there's people like Bisley who spends hours upon hours signing and sketching for fans without complaint.

[king mob]

By the way, you need to bone up on your Kirby. He's like a Grant Morrison who can't write dialogue.

Kirby became a huge influence upon Morrison probably post-Zenith, and you can see it in his JLA where he's throwing around Kirby-esque ideas like confetti while trying to tap into the energy Kirby had in everything he did with varying levels of success. At least Morrison noted this in a lot of interviews unlike some who still happily pilfer from Kirby without giving credit where it's due.

[king mob]

Peers? Kirby was creating comics long before Lee. But I get what you're saying. Still, when comparing him to Morrison in that aspect you have to remember the time Kirby was working and for how long he had been doing before naturalistic dialogue started being a thing.

If you've ever seen some of Kirby's later Marvel original art you'll see dialogue from Kirby that Lee ignores so he can stick his mock-Shakespeare/hipster jive down, which is one of the many reasons there was tension between the pair.

However the idea Lee was writing naturalistic dialogue is not understanding what the phrase actually means.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

Depends if you want to be respected as way as lapping up the fame, money and groupies. There's far too many creators who have their heads firmly up their own arses when they come into money and fame, and then there's people like Bisley who spends hours upon hours signing and sketching for fans without complaint.

I think Gaiman has a smarter attitude. While he stands his ground (and I mean the Spawn thing), he doesn't become an enemy of the industry like Moore, but he's also no whore like Morrison. That way he can come and go as he pleases without being a pretentious sell out.

[king mob]

It's more specific than that, big concept men are everywhere in comics.

No, they're not. Kirby used to throw away an idea which would now be milked for a year at least. That's the problem with superhero comics, there's a serious lack of concepts, ideas and originality.

[king mob]

Wasn't Marvel the first to write credits at the begining of the story. In dc books you had to see if the letters section said something about it.

No, you had EC print credits and make their writers and artists and intrinsic part of who EC were which was then promptly ripped off by Stan Lee (a lot of Lee's banter looks lifted from what Gaines used in his books) for the Bullpen, but various titles prior to EC did print credits, even National let Carmine Infantino sign some of his JSA strips in the 40's.

[king mob]

Which is exactly where I was going. How can Stan be abusing Kirby and Ditko when he started the credit thing?

Oh you have missed out on a huge chunk of history.

[tony ingram]

UK or Britain, not England.

Scotland, surely?

[king mob]

I think Gaiman has a smarter attitude. While he stands his ground (and I mean the Spawn thing), he doesn't become an enemy of the industry like Moore, but he's also no whore like Morrison. That way he can come and go as he pleases without being a pretentious sell out.

Moore isn't an enemy of the industry, he's just telling a truth about a part of the industry many people don't want to believe is true though (and we can see that from events this week) he's entirely correct.

[king mob]

Scotland, surely?

Well yes but let's get the concept of the UK bedded in first.

[tony ingram]

Well yes but let's get the concept of the UK bedded in first.

Fair point. Baby steps.

[Mr. Holmes]

No, they're not. Kirby used to throw away an idea which would now be milked for a year at least. That's the problem with superhero comics, there's a serious lack of concepts, ideas and originality.

Off the top of my head, Morrison, Hickman, Azzarello, Giffen, Gillen, Aaron, Spencer, Vaughn...

Like I said, there are lots of high concept writers. It's almost become the norm in today's comics.

Depends if you want to be respected as way as lapping up the fame, money and groupies. There's far too many creators who have their heads firmly up their own arses when they come into money and fame, and then there's people like Bisley who spends hours upon hours signing and sketching for fans without complaint.

Again, I don't put myself in a position to judge others' lifestyles.

[tony ingram]

I think Gaiman has a smarter attitude. While he stands his ground (and I mean the Spawn thing), he doesn't become an enemy of the industry like Moore, but he's also no whore like Morrison. That way he can come and go as he pleases without being a pretentious sell out.

"Enemy of the industry"? No. Enemy of elements within that industry, possibly. But not without good reason.

[jesse_custer]

Off the top of my head, Morrison, Hickman, Azzarello, Giffen, Gillen, Aaron, Spencer, Vaughn...

Like I said, there are lots of high concept writers. It's almost become the norm in today's comics.

I would dispute Azzarello. He's what I would call a trash writer.

You're certainly right about Vaughn (and Morrison, of course).

I'm not sure about anyone else. I've read a Wolverine mini-series by Aaron, and even though it was fun, it wasn't built around an original concept. What has he done that you would consider high concept?

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

It's Moore paying the bills and it shows.

Here's a review of somebody that didn't enjoy it either (weak stomach I guess) but at least recognizes what Moore did. I'm surprised I missed the commentary on women in the comicbook industry. We are kind of a mass-raping culture wishing to see Catwoman, Fire or Wonder Woman in fan service situations, and here's Moore telling us, "oh, you want sex, eh? Well, here you have it bastrds!"