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  1. #286
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    He wasn't saying otherwise.



    Not really. Maybe the fact that the last complete Tintin book came out in 1976 while Asterix books are still being produced (and won't stop being so anytime soon) gives you that impression.
    On the other hand, Tintin's republications of old albums are still about 1/4 of the money made by the publisher to this day. And the publisher isn't a small one at all.
    That's how big this is.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  2. #287
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    Well, to be fair, he is. But he's still fun. And without him, Britain would never have had one of the most popular New Wave bands of the eighties: the unforgettable Thompson Twins.
    Well, let's just say that the more popular albums are the ones with Haddock for a reason.
    Tintin isn't much developped as far as personnality and origins go. We don't even know if "Tintin" is his legal name or just a nickname.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    On the other hand, Tintin's republications of old albums are still about 1/4 of the money made by the publisher to this day. And the publisher isn't a small one at all.
    That's how big this is.
    Tintin albuns are side by side with the newest Asterix, Lucky Luke or Spirou books on the bookshelfs of my country. I remember as a kid not being much interested because, again, of the little outdated look when compared to Asterix and the others. But one day my sister offered me one and once I read it I whent to the library and read every single one. It just looks a little outdated, but story wise, most of it can go head to head with almost every comic book published today.

  4. #289
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    Tintin albuns are side by side with the newest Asterix, Lucky Luke or Spirou books on the bookshelfs of my country. I remember as a kid not being much interested because, again, of the little outdated look when compared to Asterix and the others. But one day my sister offered me one and once I read it I whent to the library and read every single one. It just looks a little outdated, but story wise, most of it can go head to head with almost every comic book published today.
    If you managed to go beyond the first albums, which were stereotypical to the point of racism ("Tintin in Congo is published as a adult book in many countries for a reason), and often kind of nonsensical (Herge admitted many time he didn't know how to get Tintin out of the trouble he put him into until the last minute), the series really got strong, especially after Haddock's introduction. There was adventure, action, investigations, political satyre......it's really impressive considering the age of the series. I personaly have a soft spot for "Tintin in Tibet", which had a really strong emotional core and a very specific feeling about it.
    Which country are you from, by the way?
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    It's not that hard. It's just question. Moore's Supreme is clumsy compared to what? or what makes you say it's clumsy?
    I'm judging Supreme in a vaccum when I say "clumsy" I'm not saying it's clumsy because I've read less clumsy works. The book is all over the place and hamfisted in trying to build the DCU in a pastiche way that it takes you out of the story. It's not done in a smooth manner.

    I miss Desaad's comment, but your was obnoxious. And it's just your opinion, anyway. The entire run on Supreme is him acknowledging the past revisions of his history and dealing with it, with people from his past versions returning and fitting into the new one. It's "Jurgens Superman" remembering his past exactly as "Binder's version" lived it.
    What is obnoxious about it? That you disagree?

  6. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    He wasn't saying otherwise.



    Not really. Maybe the fact that the last complete Tintin book came out in 1976 while Asterix books are still being produced (and won't stop being so anytime soon) gives you that impression.

    EDIT: Reading Auguste Dupin's post, if you talking about popularity as in "everybody loves it", yeah, possibily. Again, probably because Tintin is a little outdated and because his books were never pure funny as Asterix is.

    Speaking of that (the funny part), why has no one ever try to sell JLI in Graphic Novel format in Europe? At least I've never seen it. It's sense of humor could probably work better in Europe than pretty much anything else the American industry produces.
    Nope, it's the fact that I knew about Asterix about 10 years before Tintin. At least in Mexico Asterix is way, way more popular. Asterix had those animated movies, the books were more widely distributed and it had a live action movie 10 years before. Nickelodeon helped Tintin a lot, though and things might change after the movie. However, given the quality, I wouldn't be surprised if Tintin was more beloved in Europe.

    I think that DiDio is kind of a Grinch when it comes to comedy. I always saw the success of Super Buddies artificially held back. I think G-DM wore thin after they Started doing Quaterly and Annuals, but when they focus, like they did with Super Buddies, they become some of the best DC can offer. I normally go for British stuff (Moore, Gaiman, Mrrison, etc), but I prefer JLI to Morrison's JLA. JLI is just more tuned with its own era.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  7. #292

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I'm judging Supreme in a vaccum when I say "clumsy" I'm not saying it's clumsy because I've read less clumsy works. The book is all over the place and hamfisted in trying to build the DCU in a pastiche way that it takes you out of the story. It's not done in a smooth manner.



    What is obnoxious about it? That you disagree?
    What is obnoxious is the way you said it.

    I don't think of Supreme as clumsy, it just has a deliberately campy and laid-back style. It's pretty solid when it comes to its plot an continuity. And I don't think the pastiche takes you away from the story because the pastiche is clearly the point.

    I don't think Moore was doing his Superman with Supreme, but rather what he couldn't actually do if he was doing Superman. Whatever Happened is more like his superman. Although I think Morrison kinda beat him there. It happens to the best, I don't think Caped Crussader was Gaiman's or Batman's best, although it's one of the best Batman reads (not a top 10, though).
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    What is obnoxious is the way you said it.

    I don't think of Supreme as clumsy, it just has a deliberately campy and laid-back style. It's pretty solid when it comes to its plot an continuity. And I don't think the pastiche takes you away from the story because the pastiche is clearly the point.

    I don't think Moore was doing his Superman with Supreme, but rather what he couldn't actually do if he was doing Superman. Whatever Happened is more like his superman. Although I think Morrison kinda beat him there. It happens to the best, I don't think Caped Crussader was Gaiman's or Batman's best, although it's one of the best Batman reads (not a top 10, though).
    The biggest thing he could never actually do in a Superman comic is credit Wylie and Gibson as the creators of the base archetypes that DC has built it's company on.

    Do you think Moore borrowed from Superman on behalf of Supreme then justified it in the end by implying that it's ok because the original concept wasn't really DC's material to begin with?

  9. #294
    More human than human. Johnny P. Sartre's Avatar
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    I like where this thread went, from moore/grant to Herge and bandes dessinťes.
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  10. #295
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I'm judging Supreme in a vaccum when I say "clumsy" I'm not saying it's clumsy because I've read less clumsy works. The book is all over the place and hamfisted in trying to build the DCU in a pastiche way that it takes you out of the story. It's not done in a smooth manner.
    I don't think his Supreme is clumsy; I think it's structured extremely well, like most Moore work. But it does read like Moore is running down a checklist of Silver Age Superman elements one by one and marking them off, while telling a mostly Bronze Age-styled story. I guess you could say it's so structured that it sometimes feels clinical. But I wouldn't say "clumsy."

  11. #296
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    It's the heavy handed way the pastiche is handled, which is what feels clumsy to me, but sure that's maybe a better way to put it. I don't mean to say the plotting is clumsy.

    I thought Tom Strong was much better. It had the ingredients of Superman, but the story was more focused without the overly pastiche elements.

  12. #297
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I thought Tom Strong was much better. It had the ingredients of Superman,
    Or the ingredients of Hugo Danner from the 1930 novel, Gladiator, from which Superman seems to owe much.

  13. #298
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    By "Superman's ingredients" I was referring to his inspirations, especially Doc Savage.

  14. #299
    Senior Member Eumenides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    I personaly have a soft spot for "Tintin in Tibet", which had a really strong emotional core and a very specific feeling about it.
    Did you know it received a prize from the Dalai Lama himself for the way it portrays Tibet?

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    Nope, it's the fact that I knew about Asterix about 10 years before Tintin. At least in Mexico Asterix is way, way more popular. Asterix had those animated movies, the books were more widely distributed and it had a live action movie 10 years before. Nickelodeon helped Tintin a lot, though and things might change after the movie. However, given the quality, I wouldn't be surprised if Tintin was more beloved in Europe.
    Well, as I said, Tintin is not just about being funny. I assume that 10 years before knowing Tintin you were a child. Am I correct? Obviously you would had a bigger attraction towards Asterix and that would be presented to you earlier. In my own case, I was reading Asterix a long time before I picked up Tintin.

    And really, before comparing Tintin and Asterix in different media take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_...lms,_and_media
    Again, remember, Tintin was created in 1929 and the sole creator died in 1983, almost 30 years ago. Asterix was created in 1959, Uderzo is still around and unlike Hergť he wants Asterix comics to keep being made after his death. There are several reasons why Asterix is more hyped than Tintin currently.

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