Alan Moore vs Grant Morrison

[Libaax]

I agree with Bruce Kent that american comics fans in this topic should remember 100k sales of the best selling superhero is minor compared million copies sold of comic albums of a GN in Europe.

Often i want to talk to Swedish comic fans about American indy comics or big two comics and they look at me like its a small ghetto american thing they dont know about. European or french speaking,spanish comics are more mainstream and seen as more important.

Superhero has hurt the rep of american comics in countries like this. People love the films but see whole american comics field as Marvel/DC kiddy superhero works.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

While I think Supreme is better than most actual Superman stories, it isn't half the comic All Star Superman is. I like Supreme, but I found Moore's whole attempt to recreate the DCU trappings via pastiche to be way too hamfisted and clumsy. It's not nearly as poignant as All Star either.

Clumsy compared to what. I'm at the border of ad hominem, but how many not clumsy authors would we need to call a detail-oriented writer like Moore "clumsy". However, Moore clearly wanted to go lighthearted and pulled it successfully. He dropped his usual realistic tone to make the comic feel like a remix of Byrne/Jurgens and Binder's Superman.

I think that with Supreme, Moore had Superman facing the way comics work and he couldn't have done better job in that sense. All Star is about making Superman's life epic. I think they are equally good.

[Bruce Kent]

Mr Holmes is not from America though.

UK? That's an exception. The UK comic book industry is more similar with the one in the US than with the rest of Europe.

[Bruce Kent]

I don't know if Kirby is known world wide, but his impact on Manga artists is well documented, and given the way they are deified and respected there, I'd not be surprised if the public there knew Kirby more than the one here in the states.

He's not, but he's more known than Alan Moore. At least in Europe, from my experience. And Asia, adding your comment.

[tony ingram]

Yes, but you have to admit that the part of Alan Moore's work that is the most well known is his "american days". Watchmen, Supreme,Tom Strong.....
Even when he worked in Brittish comics, a relatively big part of it was things like Captain Britain for Marvel UK. I'm sure he did lots of other things, like his work on Dr Who, but I have no idea what it was, how good it was, and I don't think I ever saw a reprint or anything like that.

Seriously? His 2000AD work has been reprinted pretty much continuously, and that (and the stuff he did for Warrior) has to be among his most famous work-far more so than Tom Strong!

He was already a name at 2000 AD, at least. That is what really gave him his push.

Thank you!

I'd say it was Warrior, where V and Miracleman first appeared, that really got Moore noticed. It's pretty much known that Len Wein aproached Alan to write Swamp Thing on the strength of his strips in Warrior, and Bissette, Veitch, and Totleben were already familiar with his work because of Warrior.

That's not to put down his 2000AD work, which ranged between great (Halo Jones), solid (DR & Quinch), and fairly mediocre (Skizz). Moore was not really one of 2000AD's "big names" at the time-- that would be Mills, Wagner, Grant, and Finlay-Day. Again, revision would elevate Moore into being more significant in that period of 2000AD than he actually was.

Actually, I'd say he was one of 2000AD's big names, certainly by the time of Halo Jones. I was reading 2000AD in my early teens at that time, and Moore's was one of the few names I knew and looked out for; sad to say, I'd never heard of Gerry Finlay-Day despite probably having read his stuff for years.

[tony ingram]

Hmm... He created a huge gallery of popular characters. In Europe that gets validation. Apparently a lot more than in America. Plus, I've seen many more European creators refer Kirby than Moore.
And actually I just asked my roomates about it. Four guys. They all watched and loved V for Vendetta and Watchmen. They watch and love The Walking Dead. They know they were all adapted from comic books.

Alan Moore? No idea who he was.
Robert Kirkman? Again, no idea.
Stan Lee? They listed the characters he created, including Captain America. I corrected them.
Hergé? Tintin.
Akira Toriyama? Dragon Ball.

Enough for an example? I'm not actually going on the street, it's cold.
And I've mentioned Alan Moore plenty of times before, when talking about comics with friends, and I've never seen anyone recognizing his name.

(And I'm not making anything up. C'mon, let's take this down a rude path. I'm saying something that's pretty obvious to me, a person outside of America. And you americans really don't seem to understand or care to understand the rest of the world. So trust me. To a normal person, Alan Moore means absolutely nothing).

And again: I'm not American, and I say you're talking crap. Oh, and by the way: Akira Toriyama? I have no idea who that is, and I've been passionate about comics for nearly forty years. I've also emailed a couple of friends here in the world of British comics fandom: they had no clue, either. What do we deduce from this? Hmm, could it possibly be that comics are a broad spectrum and not everyone has the same interests?

[Auguste Dupin]

Seriously? His 2000AD work has been reprinted pretty much continuously, and that (and the stuff he did for Warrior) has to be among his most famous work-far more so than Tom Strong!

As far as I know not in France (for instance). While his work during his "american period" has, and many times (and yes, Tom Strong is one of them).
I'm sure his 2000AD work is popular and all, but I'm sorry, ask a non Brittish what work has done Moore, I'm not sure 2000AD will named that many time.
And seriously you're the only one who care about this supposed distinction. The name of Alan Moore isn't that well known accros the world, end of story.

[Libaax]

Seriously? His 2000AD work has been reprinted pretty much continuously, and that (and the stuff he did for Warrior) has to be among his most famous work-far more so than Tom Strong!

Thank you!

Actually, I'd say he was one of 2000AD's big names, certainly by the time of Halo Jones. I was reading 2000AD in my early teens at that time, and Moore's was one of the few names I knew and looked out for; sad to say, I'd never heard of Gerry Finlay-Day despite probably having read his stuff for years.

This is funny Alan Moore 2000AD comics have thier own display in the local comic shop for years. Always new reprints. I cant find Supreme reprints though. Every time i walk in i see Halo Jones trade.

How long did take for the reprint of Swamp Thing.....

[Lexrules]

And again: I'm not American, and I say you're talking crap. Oh, and by the way: Akira Toriyama? I have no idea who that is, and I've been passionate about comics for nearly forty years. I've also emailed a couple of friends here in the world of British comics fandom: they had no clue, either. What do we deduce from this? Hmm, could it possibly be that comics are a broad spectrum and not everyone has the same interests?

I don't know who the hell Akira Toriyama is either Tony. But then again I'm American and apparently know nothing about comic books.

[tony ingram]

UK? That's an exception. The UK comic book industry is more similar with the one in the US than with the rest of Europe.

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you?

[Auguste Dupin]

And again: I'm not American, and I say you're talking crap. Oh, and by the way: Akira Toriyama? I have no idea who that is, and I've been passionate about comics for nearly forty years. I've also emailed a couple of friends here in the world of British comics fandom: they had no clue, either. What do we deduce from this? Hmm, could it possibly be that comics are a broad spectrum and not everyone has the same interests?

Seriously? Dragon Ball, anyone?
You live under a rock or what?

[Bruce Kent]

And again: I'm not American, and I say you're talking crap. Oh, and by the way: Akira Toriyama? I have no idea who that is, and I've been passionate about comics for nearly forty years. I've also emailed a couple of friends here in the world of British comics fandom: they had no clue, either. What do we deduce from this? Hmm, could it possibly be that comics are a broad spectrum and not everyone has the same interests?

I deduce you're pretending to be ignorant, since my post tells you right away who the guy is.
And I really don't feel the need to prove this anymore. I know what I'm saying is true. If you want to defend your national treasure against reality, go ahead.

[tony ingram]

Seriously? Dragon Ball, anyone?
You live under a rock or what?

Sorry. Not my generation, I guess. And I have no interest in the Japanese stuff, anyway.

[Lexrules]

Seriously? Dragon Ball, anyone?
You live under a rock or what?

I know the cartoon. I have no clue who actually created it. All I know is Silver Age Superman would kick Goku's Ass.

[tony ingram]

I deduce you're pretending to be ignorant, since my post tells you right away who the guy is.

It tells me nothing since I know, and care to know, nothing about Dragonball. I'm vaguely aware of a cartoon of that name which I've never seen. That's it.