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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    Scott Summers and Colleen Wing. What, did they pull names out of a hat?
    I never heard of this one, or indeed many of the others mentioned so far, but this is the feeling I have about a lot of the ones I did know about: a totally random matching up of characters for no perceivable reason other than a lack of ideas on the part of the writer.

    BTW, that grotesque panel of the Juggernaut and She-Hulk in bed together (I can almost feel myself getting more stupid just typing that) highlights just how ridiculously disproportioned superhero anatomy has become.

  2. #47

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    For a brief while on Justice League, Gerry Conway tried to get something going with Barry and Zatanna. And Iris's body was hardly even cold yet--in fact, it wouldn't have been cold at all since she was in another body, only Barry didn't know it. Zatanna came across as rather tawdry, going after a man who had just lost his wife. But maybe the chemicals from her polyester disco suit were affecting her brain.

  3. #48
    14 Time Rita's Champion SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Hawkgirl / Red Arrow

    The Reason - Back in Brad Meltzer's "Justice League of America" run , his grand scheme was to hook up 2 legacy characters in a unique twist. As a fun wink to the past. Its just that the execution was so bad that the relationship was troubled the moment it happened. In fact the storyline of how they became a couple is one that defies all comics logic. In issues before #12 , you would see Roy Harper flirt a little and maybe look at Kendra . But nothing to say the 2 were a couple at all in the comics . In fact the couple DC had at their feet and the perfect one to push was right there and the interaction was all with Vixen (Marie) and Red Arrow .

    Roy and Marie would train together , discuss things and the 2 nearly died together in #11. Where they discussed Roy's daughter. You would think that DC was gonna push an interracial couple to the fore front of their comics. NOPE.

    The next month in a Halloween issue , Harper showed Kendra his daughter and this made her instant horny. Where she leaped into bed in that same issue. The next months were spent where all the 2 did was argue and Roy believing he had a great relationship. Meanwhile Hawkman/Hawkgirl fans just shook their heads and wondered how bad DC could fuck up the Hawks as characters .

    Given the intense negative reaction the couple had online , DC within 20 issues pulled the plug on the couple. With Kendra telling Roy it was a mistake and her realizing she had feelings for Hawkman again .


    OVERALL - Its no shock DC would give the Hawk fans something nice , yank it back , something nice and yank it again. Eventually the new DC 52 would have them not even mention a Hawkgirl in the DC Universe except on Earth 2. As far as we old Hawkman fans can say we will have to accept this as the best romantic scene of characters reunited.

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  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    I never heard of this one, or indeed many of the others mentioned so far, but this is the feeling I have about a lot of the ones I did know about: a totally random matching up of characters for no perceivable reason other than a lack of ideas on the part of the writer.

    It really is emblematic of how completely juvenile most mainstream superhero writing has been for the last couple of decades. Not that this is entirely a new trend -- see: Terry Long's wish fulfillment -- but for the last decade in particular it seems like writers go out of their way to add wink-wink sexual content for no narrative reason, between characters where it makes no sense at all. It's pure fan service, only the writers themselves are the fans being serviced; it's fan self-service. Really, nonsense like the She-Hulk/Juggernaut thing or the Pete Wisdom/Kitty Pryde stuff couldn't be more immature.
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  5. #50
    Veteran Member Sonofspam's Avatar
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    Did anyone originally reading Teen Titans knew that Terry Long was a stand in for Marv Wolfman? i just figured she had a thing for older sophisticated men and university teachers do seem to be very popular with the ladies at least from what i have heard.

  6. #51
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonofspam View Post
    Did anyone originally reading Teen Titans knew that Terry Long was a stand in for Marv Wolfman? i just figured she had a thing for older sophisticated men and university teachers do seem to be very popular with the ladies at least from what i have heard.
    For me, it was a gradual realization. I was a teenager when I first started reading New Teen Titans, and the thought of an author inserting himself into a story never crossed my mind then. A couple of years later, partway through reading the Riverworld series, I suddenly realized that one of the main characters had the exact same initials as the author, and probably was a proxy for the author. After that, I watched to see if other writers were doing the same thing and found examples. My favorite writer at the time was Roger Zelazny, and I noticed a brief cameo in the Amber series in the form of a castle guard named Roger. And there was a recurring minor character in the series named Bill Roth who also seemed like a stand-in for Zelazny himself. Around the time that Terry Long married Donna Troy, I became convinced that Terry represented Marv Wolfman. I don't see it as a problem, unless the writer undermines his own story by trying too hard to make his character look good.
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  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    I never heard of this one, or indeed many of the others mentioned so far, but this is the feeling I have about a lot of the ones I did know about: a totally random matching up of characters for no perceivable reason other than a lack of ideas on the part of the writer.
    One other quick comment on this one specifically. Scott and Colleen was actually an old, old pairing, from way back near the beginning of Claremont's run in the late 70's. They first got together around #118, during a period where Scott believed Jean to be dead. The relationship ended when Jean turned out to be (surprise!) alive. It never really went anywhere and I think Claremont added it just to bring some drama to Jean's return; you know, Scott has a new girlfriend, how is Jean going to react, whatever. I don't have a problem with this one.
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  8. #53

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    Well this is the thing with Terry. He was just there. I didn't see any qualities in him that either made him a really great guy or a really bad guy. He was all exterior and nothing inside. So it was hard to get a handle on him and understand why Donna was attracted to him (other than that he had a kid) or even why he was attracted to her (other than she had a hot bod).

  9. #54
    Big Hairy Member JeffreyWKramer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Ear In The Fireplace View Post
    Well this is the thing with Terry. He was just there. I didn't see any qualities in him that either made him a really great guy or a really bad guy. He was all exterior and nothing inside. So it was hard to get a handle on him and understand why Donna was attracted to him (other than that he had a kid) or even why he was attracted to her (other than she had a hot bod).
    That's part of why he was a terrible character, though, and part of why the pairing was a bad one.

    If a character in a story doesn't add anything to the story, the character doesn't belong in the story. Terry provided no good story hooks or plot ideas. His only purpose, essentially, was to set up a "special wedding issue" of a comic, but for all he brought to the book, Donna might as well have married a cardboard cut-out.

    I guess that's a little bit better than a character who is inserted into a book for the sole purpose of getting killed off as a lame means of motivating some action on another character's part, but not much.
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  10. #55
    Senior Member dr chimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    Johnny Storm/Alicia Masters.
    who later turned out to be a skrull just to ramp it up even further. comics, truly man's nonsense
    "...so Hitler sends Iron Jaw's son to America to get revenge on Crimebuster." S.H.

  11. #56
    Idaho Spuds Slam_Bradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    For me, it was a gradual realization. I was a teenager when I first started reading New Teen Titans, and the thought of an author inserting himself into a story never crossed my mind then. A couple of years later, partway through reading the Riverworld series, I suddenly realized that one of the main characters had the exact same initials as the author, and probably was a proxy for the author. After that, I watched to see if other writers were doing the same thing and found examples. My favorite writer at the time was Roger Zelazny, and I noticed a brief cameo in the Amber series in the form of a castle guard named Roger. And there was a recurring minor character in the series named Bill Roth who also seemed like a stand-in for Zelazny himself. Around the time that Terry Long married Donna Troy, I became convinced that Terry represented Marv Wolfman. I don't see it as a problem, unless the writer undermines his own story by trying too hard to make his character look good.

    P.J. Farmer never made any bones about Peter Frigate being a stand-in for him. And then played with that (to greater or lesser effect) later in the series.

  12. #57
    Veteran Member Sonofspam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Ear In The Fireplace View Post
    Well this is the thing with Terry. He was just there. I didn't see any qualities in him that either made him a really great guy or a really bad guy. He was all exterior and nothing inside. So it was hard to get a handle on him and understand why Donna was attracted to him (other than that he had a kid) or even why he was attracted to her (other than she had a hot bod).
    I think she might have been attracted to his maturity and his stability i def got the feeling she wanted someone who was settled down and wasn't involved in anyway to the crazyness of the superhero life.

    As for what he say in her well she did support him in trying to write his book and she was able to help him too cause it was about greek mythology iirc.

    Donna always seemed the most mature during that period compared to all the other characters.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Ear In The Fireplace View Post
    For a brief while on Justice League, Gerry Conway tried to get something going with Barry and Zatanna. And Iris's body was hardly even cold yet--in fact, it wouldn't have been cold at all since she was in another body, only Barry didn't know it. Zatanna came across as rather tawdry, going after a man who had just lost his wife. But maybe the chemicals from her polyester disco suit were affecting her brain.
    This one didn't bother me so much, simply at the time I thought it was just a one-off, not an idea for an ongoing romance. I might change my verdict on Conway if I reread the surrounding issues, but back then, I just thought something like, Zatanna probably admired Barry in some previous meeting, didn't act on it because he was married, and then just invited him to have a little fling. I agree that it's unlikely that Barry would've responded to her if he were grieving, but stranger things have happened in real life.

    That incident does seem to have the motivation behind later characterizations of Zatanna as a little bit, shall we say, loose with her favors.

    A goofier idea by far imo was a JUSTICE LEAGUE story-- written I think by Kanigher-- in which Black Canary, who already a long-standing relationship with Green Arrow, shared a kiss (or something close to it) with Batman, for no good reason I could see except Kanigher had written both characters and created one of them. As the idea was never pursued that I can recall, one might deem this another "storyline that fizzled."

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr chimp View Post
    who later turned out to be a skrull just to ramp it up even further. comics, truly man's nonsense
    Women have their own brand of nonsense, of course. Try to keep track of the relationships of Anita Blake and see what you get.

  15. #60
    Senior Member Polar Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr chimp View Post
    who later turned out to be a skrull just to ramp it up even further. comics, truly man's nonsense
    I was actually fine with that. First, it meant Johnny wasn't married to Alicia. But second, I thought his being married to a skrull created some interesting tensions and possibilities (a lot more than his being married to Alicia, that's for sure).

    Whatever happened to Lyja, anyway?
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