State of Wakanda: The Black Panther Discussion

[marvell2100]

Yeah, I so hope that Namor gets what's coming for him. Seeing as how Emma is Marvel's newest Golden Child though, she'll probably get off with saying that "she did all that for Storm's own good because she was miserable." Then at the least Storm will begrudgingly thank her, with the most being done towards her is Storm slapping her in the face. As an aside, have they even released a death toll for how many died? If not it seems as though they don't want to release an actual figure, because such a stupidly high number would make it all the more difficult for anyone to view Namor as a "hero" again. So they're just dodging it and waiting till everyone is occupied with the upcoming team book.

The haven't released any numbers and I doubt they will. They want to quickly move away from what actually happened to the people affected.

[Hindsight lad]

Lol, he got alot of 'splainin' to do. I really hope that Hickman addresses this and holds Namor accountable. So far in the past few years, Wakanda is 1-2 when it comes to recent attacks.

Doom attacks Wakanda and pretty much walks away(lame a$$ ending).

Seriously, just read the Black Empire book I mentioned above and pretend Great Britain is Latveria. I think you'll be satisfied.

Hindsight lad

[marvell2100]

Seriously, just read the Black Empire book I mentioned above and pretend Great Britain is Latveria. I think you'll be satisfied.

Hindsight lad

Probably, but I'd like to be satisfied by seeing Wakanda and BP get justice against the people who attacked them.

[GOD]

I wouldn't call it racist by any stretch of the imagination; I felt it was a somewhat simplistic, and a somewhat telling "truth bomb" in Wolverine's character, that I believed 100% (he also ragged on America too). I think Ellis is the last person to write Wolverine as he is supposed to be = an angry, arrogant dwarf!.

That scene doesn't really make Wolverine look too good. He is basically call someone who fought againts a racist South African government a terroirst. Funny how that's not mentioned.

Also funny how he is commenting that African heads of state go nuts but fails to mention that many of them are in the pocket of European government and financial institutions. A bit of a revisionist history from the ol Canuck.

[Hindsight lad]

The haven't released any numbers and I doubt they will. They want to quickly move away from what actually happened to the people affected.

You have to remember, though, that this is far from the first time Namor flooded a nation out of anger. Hell, during the Golden Age, Namor went to war with the whole damn world and conquered half of Europe. At the end of the story, Namor was completely forgiven and was back fighting at the Torch's side. Hunt this down, it's crazy awesome.



The weirdest, most wrong part? The Torch goes to Africa and warns the Golden Age Ka-Zar (not Kevin Plunder) that a tidal wave is coming. Torch tells Ka-Zar to build an arc to carry all the animals. Ka-Zar does, and the jungle animals are saved. No mention is made of any of the people who live in the Congo and are presumably washed out to sea.

Hindsight lad

[Hindsight lad]

That scene doesn't really make Wolverine look too good. He is basically call someone who fought againts a racist South African government a terroirst. Funny how that's not mentioned.

Also funny how he is commenting that African heads of state go nuts but fails to mention that many of them are in the pocket of European government and financial institutions. A bit of a revisionist history from the ol Canuck.

To be fair, in a later issue Dr. Crocodile pretty much tells this to Wolverine's face. "You must have gotten a pretty good view of Africa while you were murdering people as a mercenary." Not the exact words, but the gist.

The whole point of the story is that the X-Men, like well-meaning Americans and Europeans, are basically tourists. They see a problem, rush in to fix it, leave, then forget all about it. Dr. Crocodile and his people have to live with the consequences of those actions and don't have the luxury of returning to a secret headquarters when the fighting is done.

Hindsight lad

[Booshman]

To be fair, in a later issue Dr. Crocodile pretty much tells this to Wolverine's face. "You must have gotten a pretty good view of Africa while you were murdering people as a mercenary." Not the exact words, but the gist.

The whole point of the story is that the X-Men, like well-meaning Americans and Europeans, are basically tourists. They see a problem, rush in to fix it, leave, then forget all about it. Dr. Crocodile and his people have to live with the consequences of those actions and don't have the luxury of returning to a secret headquarters when the fighting is done.

Hindsight lad

Not to insult you and please don't take my questioning as such, but was that the "actual" point being expressed? Or could that point have been made, "if they only went a tiny bit further"?

[Vic Vega]

There has been some conversation about who would be Tchalla's love interest in the movie, if there ever was one.

If they were doing a Black Panther movie, I would make Nikki, Ross' boss/girlfriend in the Priest series the love interest. I'd just make her Asian.

Use Monica Lynn, or any other African American character and the movie risks being labed as a "black product". It also occurs to me that heroes usually only get ONE sidekick/helper(Batman/Robin, Lone Ranger/Tonto and Green Hornet/Kato). So Tchalla having two Dora's assisting him is overkill by movie logic.

If you are giving him a helper/sidekick, it should be Shuri (possibly pretending to be simply his driver).
I see most of the movie taking place in NYC, as Tchalla hunts his father's killer who has gone to ground there.

Which would explain Shuri's motivation for being there as well.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I find the Namor thing funny.

Death of Xavier - Cyclop's fault. Acknowledged by the world at large, specifically Magneto.
Betraying Emma - Cyclop's fault. Acknowledged by Emma.
Emma's Betrayal - Emma's fault. Acknowledged by Scott.
Magik's special prison (Hell) - Magik's fault, hence her considering herself a fugitive.


Namor's attacking Wakanda - The Black Panthers' faults? Or Storm's fault for not helping?

Neither option makes sense. Not even in universe. But I can see why the annulment was done. After the P5, I'm sure Wakanda trusts no mutants, former queen or not.

[Vic Vega]

I find the Namor thing funny.

Death of Xavier - Cyclop's fault. Acknowledged by the world at large, specifically Magneto.
Betraying Emma - Cyclop's fault. Acknowledged by Emma.
Emma's Betrayal - Emma's fault. Acknowledged by Scott.
Magik's special prison (Hell) - Magik's fault, hence her considering herself a fugitive.


Namor's attacking Wakanda - The Black Panthers' faults? Or Storm's fault for not helping?

Neither option makes sense. Not even in universe. But I can see why the annulment was done. After the P5, I'm sure Wakanda trusts no mutants, former queen or not.

The first time Namor pulled something like this, he was captured by the Original Human Torch and ended up being put in the Electric Chair (those Golden Age stories were insane). I forget how he escaped.

But the idea that he would just walk for stuff like this didnt even fly in the golden age.

[moneyspider]

Same here, I think he would appreciate some Gamora, BTW, to you and all the other new posters Welcome to Wakanda, where the love is fierce, the loyalty is unwavering and the town laws brutally enforced and to those returning, welcome back!

Yep...the town laws brutally enforced by the moderators and the owner/owners of Comic Book Resources, as it should be.

[Etoma]

I find the Namor thing funny.

Death of Xavier - Cyclop's fault. Acknowledged by the world at large, specifically Magneto.
Betraying Emma - Cyclop's fault. Acknowledged by Emma.
Emma's Betrayal - Emma's fault. Acknowledged by Scott.
Magik's special prison (Hell) - Magik's fault, hence her considering herself a fugitive.


Namor's attacking Wakanda - The Black Panthers' faults? Or Storm's fault for not helping?

Neither option makes sense. Not even in universe. But I can see why the annulment was done. After the P5, I'm sure Wakanda trusts no mutants, former queen or not.

I think having Namor in the New Avengers book is the only potential stumbling block for Hickman. He HAS to make it believeable for T'Challa and Namor to be in the same room. Whatever recompense has to be paid, whatever reckoning needs to had, I hope it's done right. But I have faith in Hickman.

[JaggedFel]

Yeah seems out of character for wolverine. He is the guy u expect to hate all governments as a rule. Now frost saying that I can see.

[Moose100]

Yknow what I confused Xenogenesis with Ghost Boxes. I haven't read Xenogenesis yet

[Kieran_Frost]

That scene doesn't really make Wolverine look too good. He is basically call someone who fought againts a racist South African government a terroirst. Funny how that's not mentioned.
Also funny how he is commenting that African heads of state go nuts but fails to mention that many of them are in the pocket of European government and financial institutions. A bit of a revisionist history from the ol Canuck.

It's not revisionist; it's making a point that is rarely made. Nelson Mandela is a great man, and his many incredible achievements are acknowledged countless times (all the news reports about his current illness have repeated his great contributions to South Africa and the world)... but it's good to occasional mention the OTHER SIDE of the coin (which is something Warren Ellis is acknowledging here). The same way it's good so many British people admire Winston Churchill but it's ALSO important to remember his distrust and dislike of Gandhi and his possible involvement in sinking the Lusitania. Even saints have flaws that should not be swept under the rug.

To be fair, in a later issue Dr. Crocodile pretty much tells this to Wolverine's face. "You must have gotten a pretty good view of Africa while you were murdering people as a mercenary." Not the exact words, but the gist.
The whole point of the story is that the X-Men, like well-meaning Americans and Europeans, are basically tourists. They see a problem, rush in to fix it, leave, then forget all about it. Dr. Crocodile and his people have to live with the consequences of those actions and don't have the luxury of returning to a secret headquarters when the fighting is done.

And this too!

I think having Namor in the New Avengers book is the only potential stumbling block for Hickman. He HAS to make it believeable for T'Challa and Namor to be in the same room. Whatever recompense has to be paid, whatever reckoning needs to had, I hope it's done right. But I have faith in Hickman.

I just hope Tony's involvement is mentioned too. He shouldn't be completely blameless in this, either.

Yknow what I confused Xenogenesis with Ghost Boxes. I haven't read Xenogenesis yet

Ghost Box IS linked to Xenogensis; it's the Ghost Box's that cause the problem/radiation.