Pull-list: Action Comics, Batman, Superior Spider-Man, The Flash, Astro City, Detective Comics, Fantastic Four, Thor: God of Thunder
Last edited by Zeeguy91; 11-25-2012 at 05:16 PM.
Is Superman now not from Krypton? Oh, no...he still is
Is Batman not an orphan anymore? Oh wait, no....he still is, too.
Was Jason Todd not killed by Joker and then brought back to life? No...he still was.
Was Barbara not shot by Joker and paralyzed for a while? Nope. She was.
Did Green Lantern not pick up EXACTLY where it left off from before Flashpoint? Actually...it did.
It was actually also alluded to in Swamp Thing #1 that Superman still went through his whole "Death and Return" Saga
A wise man (Dennis Calero) actually put this pretty well for me. I can't give you a direct quote or anything, but it went something along the lines of: "As long as they keep the defining elements and moments that define these characters, and I mean the really important ones, like the Death of Gwen Stacy for Spider-Man or Death in the Family for Batman/Jason Todd, is it really important that they keep this story that happened in issue #579 of Batman where he meets a new villainess named Orca, or any stories like it that most fans forget?"
Last edited by Zeeguy91; 11-25-2012 at 05:32 PM.
Financially, yes, DC needed something. A reboot, a .1 initiative or whatever. I'm glad it's worked out for them.
I don't care for how the reboot was executed, the creative teams, choices or line wide direction. The few books I was reading were either ditched, or turned into something I wasn't interested in reading, created by people who's work I am not a fan of. But I bet DC gained enough readers they don't really need to care if I kept reading or not.
Well, given the way the DC universe is structured and the way the stories had gone, I would say they needed a reboot. That being said, the concept of the hard reboot isn't something that I generally advocate.
Generally, I don't believe for one second that re-boots are necessary to re-invigorate a line. That sort of thinking will simply lead to reboots every 5 years or so, thus creating further problems. I also don't know when so much hand holding was required in comics. When we were young, we got into comics around issue 200 of something and started from there. That was before there was an Internet or Wikipedia and the whole idea of jumping into this rich mythology made comics even more attractive to us.
I think DC's original idea of restarting their line but keeping parts of continuity that worked and ignoring parts that didn't would have been better. Continuity isnt a problem, its the way its handled thats a problem. I'm sure most long term DC fans werent complaining about continuity before the new 52 as it wasn't what affected story telling.
Last edited by USERNAME TAKEN; 11-25-2012 at 11:06 PM.
Adults struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life when the answer is obvious to the smallest child: because it's not real. - Grant Morrison
And of course some fans quit; is that REALLY up for discussion? Have fans quit since? OF COURSE. Are things still dropping and dropping? OF COURSE. Is everything but those top lot doing average or lower? OF COURSE. Will this top lot be average this time next year? MOST LIKELY.
I know DC cancelled titles all the time BEFORE, but they're going crazy this time. Those top titles keep dropping and dropping and all that's being added to bump sales is titles they have ABSOLUTELY NO FAITH IN. People are realizing these new wave titles have nearly no chance of sticking; so much has been thrown at the wall, the wall has crumbled and crashed. Even family titles that aren't the main title are doing average (how are Green Lantern ones doing worse? ON LESS ISSUES? NOTE: not talking about main title, family tie-ins I'm on about).
Most titles are still riding off their "advertised relaunch 1s". That's fine, but it's artificial and not stable. And replacement titles are being shown to not be "sticking". I'd say Threshold may stick (GL-related), but what hope even in that context does it have when other GL family is falling? JLA will be hit and miss. Could go big or could tank. Wave before, Batman INC was the only sticker, but even though that did good sales, it didn't do what it should have due to obvious reasons.
They're still in the same situation as they were pre-reboot. Just they're slightly ahead in sales (on SOME comics), which isn't staying. They did nothing to stabilize their business longterm, just give it a boost by buzz, while ultimately destabilizing their in-comic story structure and fan base. Face it; the in-comic universe structure was finally stable. Now it's balls to the wall all over the place again. There were bad issues/stories, but there are now. there were bad selling series, but there are now. All easily correctible. Look at them now; a story is bad they simply bring new writers in. Why did that not occur to them before...? Bad selling titles with no hope get cancelled. They were given more chance before. Why? To finish a story off and show faith to the customer/fan. Do we get that courtesy now? Not as much, it's not treating well for the fan base.
^Face it, the real seller of the NU52 was advertising and the buzz/relaunched number 1s and new fresh story arcs. The reboot history nuke barely even factors in. The amount of readers the history nuke added probably accounts to less new customers than the history nuke caused it to lose. Marvel is proving this. DC cut it's arms off to stop the infection spreading, but then forgot to patch the stubs up and is now slowly bleeding to death.
And you're right. Personality does define a character more than history, but their origin or at least the super important events in their lives define how they act. Jason still has a grudge against Batman because of the aftermath of what happened in Death in the Family and Under the Hood. Likewise, a character like Barry Allen as Flash is defined by being struck by that lightning bolt in his laboratory and being doused with chemicals. That's just as important as his personality of being a meticulous, dedicated cop. As long as some of those essential characteristics make it through, then the core of the characters stay intact