Supergirl vs. Thor

[Surtur]

I agree..it's the same reason Flash can KO a white martian, but..it's a murky issue when it comes to class 100 bricks. We're selectively applying physics, but then so do comics.

[Guy Smiley]

Indeed. Took me a while to wrap my mind around that very concept: speed kills. I DO like the way CBR argues feats rather than what is typically shown during the course of a story. Much of what we see in the way of characters like Silver Surfer, Wally West and Superman can be chalked up to PIS. The fact that the story lasts longer than two panels is proof of this with those types of characters.

It's amazing how much speed and PIS is ignored on other Sites (which shall remain nameless).

I had it driven into me from an old RPG rumbles site. They used in-game mechanics as their reference rather than feats (which makes more sense when the genre is restricted to one with clearly-displayed numbers and quantifications) and had rules about what was allowable equipment and so on. It's unfortunately tended to color my responses to things like the BoF Ryu and FF7 threads that occasionally show up here.

But yeah, there, as here, speed was killer. When you strike first and can do sixteen attacks to your opponent's one, even if you do the same amount of damage as your opponent per attack you tend to win.

Now, I don't hate being that guy so I'll go ahead and ask.
What?
There's no reason to hold back how fast.....so....we now compartmentalize the speed of an attack and it's imparted kinetic energy? Does energy and mass and square light not apply?
Maybe I'm just being the stupid one here but for the life of me I don't see how a fist going 299,345 miles per hour is supposed to do the same damage as a fist traveling 12, because hey. You can hold back the power but why bother with the speed?

Maybe he meant that Supes pulls his punches at the end, but his delivery time is faster? (Probably not, but hey.)

And yeah, while a guy throwing a punch at 900 mph *should* do more damage than a guy throwing a regular punch, comics are notoriously inconsistent about displaying that. Supes hitting a guy 100 times in a second might well hurt as much as him hitting a guy 100 times in a minute, going by feats.

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

For instance, punching something at normal speed and punching something at super speed, the speed of your fist/punch should increase the power of your blow. That said, we say someone like Superman can hit you 1,000 times in a second, but he won't be hitting you with hits above his normal top end striking power. That's not exactly how I'd do it were it up to me, but I remember it being brought up before.

If a single human punch hits as hard as a million light speed punches hits as hard as a 78' Cadillac being driven by an old woman then....speed kills.

But so do old women with cars.

RealWorld physics and comicbook physics sometimes mix but oftentimes they don't mix at all. That's why we often leave comicbooks to its own cartoonish world of looney tunes math, sometimes running the math works fine on rumbles but other times it just doesn't make sense but the wacky cartoony feats still apply. How did Hulk lift that mountain without it collapsing under its own weight? How the heck did the mr genius scientist fix the totally destroyed/damaged piece of equipment by hitting it very hard with a wrench or fix some highly complex nuclear engine with just DuctTape and a ScrewDriver? ? How the f-- does Superman hear a gun fired in space, yes in space ????and even react to catch the bullet before it hits its target. I mean he shouldn't hear the bullet fire in the first place and even if he did sound travels a lot slower than a round from a rifle. Hercules giving Avengers lectures on physics/geology and he lifted the 'heavens' once, I don't know how lifting stars makes any sense. Or notice how a superheros hair is never burnts off in a fireball or how uniforms, gloves, boots, survive explosions, survive heat, cold, and every combat situation usually unscathed....feats are wacky, they don't often make sense but the feats apply


Nu52 Supergirl may be weaker but I think the big difference between Supergirl and Thor is speed matters here on rumbles. She can dish out damage a lot faster than Thor, and she is fast enough to avoid almost any of his attacks. He could end an enemy with a Area of Attack or Godblast but if CIS is off and Nu52 fights bloodlusted then she's too fast for him and she's not going to allow him time to deliver such attacks.
Thor is tough and extremely durable but he's almost got no speed feats, he was given 4 big speed feats in his past 50 years of Marvel history and next to comicbooks other speedsters his feats of speed are not impressive

[Surtur]

Indeed. Took me a while to wrap my mind around that very concept: speed kills. I DO like the way CBR argues feats rather than what is typically shown during the course of a story. Much of what we see in the way of characters like Silver Surfer, Wally West and Superman can be chalked up to PIS. The fact that the story lasts longer than two panels is proof of this with those types of characters.

It's amazing how much speed and PIS is ignored on other Sites (which shall remain nameless).

I'm not going to invoke any websites so this doesn't get edited, but I know some people in general tend to go with the "how it happens in comics" thing when it comes to fights, but since anything can happen in a comic it becomes a moot point. That is what I just don't get, whether it's being argued on a forum, between friends, an actual in person debate, etc. way too many things can happen in a comic to make it ever possible to argue that way. Every writer has a different opinion on how a character should be in terms of power, not to mention some people don't factor in speed when dealing with these things. I can't blame them, 5-6 years ago I would of said post crisis Superman could beat the shit out of the Flash. Now I know Flash could solo not only Superman, but a good chunk of the DCU..at the same time.

I've done this before with friends, I had a friend who saw the Hulk movies and for some reason went off on a huge tangent about Hulk vs Superman, ignoring the speed thing the entire time. He couldn't give me a good reason for speed not to be an issue besides mumbling something about how comics work. I hate to use phrases like PIS with people who aren't familiar with comics because then I end up having to explain a bunch of crap, so I just substitute "bad writing" for it. Luckily I've managed to convert a few people to my way of thinking: basically that most comics need PIS. The funny thing is I kinda ruined comics for a few people..heh..they keep reading comics and can't ignore PIS. Sort of like the people who read tv tropes a lot and then can't help but point out every trope they see as they see them.

[The Transient Guest]

How did Hulk lift that mountain without it collapsing under its own weight?

He uses his super strength to pick the mountain up.

How the heck did the mr genius scientist fix the totally destroyed/damaged piece of equipment by hitting it very hard with a wrench

He dislodged a lose piece of debris that was preventing a part from functioning.

or fix some highly complex nuclear engine with just DuctTape and a ScrewDriver?

Uh, by using a ducktape and a screwdriver?

How the f-- does Superman hear a gun fired in space, yes in space ????

Super hearing.

I keep on rereading the original statement and I'm thinking I might have taken it wrongly. Even more so since reading the responses and being reminded about the Flash, Supes, and such giving us a history of one quick hay maker being far more powerful than a thousand super and duper fast ones unless it's a power set point.

[Surtur]

Wait Superman fixed a nuclear reactor with ducktape? Post crisis? That would be kinda awesome. Was it super Kryptonian ducktape?

Anyways..as for the other questions it comes down to selectively ignoring physics. For hearing..I've always thought he could "stretch" his hearing to as to hear things from far away without having to actually wait for the time it would take for them to reach his ears.

[Sharpandpointies]

Regardless of other sites not being named, let's move on from discussing them, please.