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  1. #136
    The Professional marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    disassembled was probably the most fascinating avenger story i have ever seen. civil war was good too as well as dark reign.
    As much grief as it gets, Disassembled made everyone stand up and pay attention to the Avengers. It was like their Dark Phoenix moment.
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  2. #137
    Veteran Member stussyjones's Avatar
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    See I always tell people Bendis really did help the avengers out in the long run

  3. #138
    Marvel Zombie strathcona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marvell2100 View Post
    As much grief as it gets, Disassembled made everyone stand up and pay attention to the Avengers. It was like their Dark Phoenix moment.
    It made me stop paying attention to them for several years. In the years since I have only paid attention to non-Bendis written Avengers books. I can't wait for Hickman's run to start and I can read the main Avengers title again (though I really do think it's time to retire Avengers Assembled and Secret Avengers, especially if they can't give them their own unique cast).

  4. #139
    The Professional marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strathcona View Post
    It made me stop paying attention to them for several years. In the years since I have only paid attention to non-Bendis written Avengers books. I can't wait for Hickman's run to start and I can read the main Avengers title again (though I really do think it's time to retire Avengers Assembled and Secret Avengers, especially if they can't give them their own unique cast).
    Everyone had their own reactions to it. I didn't like what happend to Wanda, Vision or Clint. I'd rather it had been a major villain instead of one of their own who had done this. Too much like The Crossing(Avenger goes nuts and kills teammates). But it drew in lots of other readers as well as keeping some of the older readers who were curious about where this all was heading.
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  5. #140
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayOcean View Post
    Sloppy origin stories
    Sloppier than: He's a mutant? How much creativity does that need?

    Peace

  6. #141
    Like a boss E. Wilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    Sloppier than: He's a mutant? How much creativity does that need?

    Peace
    Yeah, I find that particular complaint a bit...odd, considering that the Avengers all have different origins. So, caught in a gamma explosion is exactly the same as experimental military super solider is exactly the same as built a super-weapon to survive being a POW is exactly the same as trained by carnies is exactly the same as Soviet super-spy?

  7. #142
    new VH soon ok Ed?? vh4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strathcona View Post
    I have read for years now that many readers found the Avengers and many of their members to be boring until Bendis came along... and even still there ar many readers that say that. Can anyone explain (without being rude to the character, the creators or other writers) why that is? I have traditionally considered myself an Avengers fan first and foremost and have loved many of the characters most strongly connected to them.

    Please give me opinion whether you find them boring, or you love them. What do you think makes them boring?
    I've never found them boring UNTIL Bendis. It's a generational thing I guess for me. It never bothered me that from time to time or by storyline, they were under government edict. Gyrich and the SHIELD stuff was fun, tension making plot points that made the Englehart/Byrne/Perez/Michelinie/Stern/Shooter eras kinda fun. What occurred in the Iron Man,Cap or Thor title affected the character's status in the ongoing Avengers or WCA title (later,). Things like Stark's alcoholism, the 'Captain' story that Gruenwald wrote, Simonson and the Ragnorok story. Bendis turned that all upside down with the popularity of what Morrison was doing, putting the Big 7 together and the sold like crazy JLA book, and Marvel's desire to 'keep up with the Joneses' approach by establishing their own Big 7 etc. with New Avengers. What ruffled fans (myself included,) was the absolute upheaval and the 'tradition' that the Avengers had been for so long. Different editorial mandates, directions are fine and dandy, but the radical destruction of said tradition rubbed some fans the wrong way. Vocal minority or whatever excuse the Bendis apologists will trot out, but they were there, and there's no denying that.

    Granted, that Luke Cage and later Iron Fist and some of the other characters like Dr Strange were/ are getting face time in a major book wasn't a bad thing, it was the lack of mainstays, the cavalier attitudes of editorial, (which granted was paying off in terms of sales,) Spiderman and Wolverine in multiple titles, (when the fuck they slept I couldn't tell ya,) was offputting to longtime fans like myself. I didn't hang around past New Avengers #1. With the shift of Marvel Now, I feel like I can go home again, having enjoyed Hickmann's Fantastic Four work, after 8, almost 9 years, I'm readily looking forward to what lies ahead for my favorite franchise.

    Remember, now that Wolverine is the Monty Burns of the MU, due to his lousy 'Origin' story that has become canon, that's the only reason that there's any kind of backstory with Logan and Steve Rogers, which I'm not a fan of either. But there's no going back there either. This whole mutant and hero thing drama that is a byproduct of fandom is pretty stupid, I'm not reading Uncanny Avengers mainly because I cynically don't believe that Cassady can put the book to press with anything resembling regularity, moreso than the concept or characters behind it. If the stories are fun then the fans win. Simple as that.
    Last edited by vh4ever; 11-26-2012 at 07:34 AM.
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  8. #143
    new VH soon ok Ed?? vh4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strathcona View Post
    It made me stop paying attention to them for several years. In the years since I have only paid attention to non-Bendis written Avengers books. I can't wait for Hickman's run to start and I can read the main Avengers title again (though I really do think it's time to retire Avengers Assembled and Secret Avengers, especially if they can't give them their own unique cast).
    It's much the same problem with the various X-Titles, I've been trumpeting the fact that if there's going to be multiple X-titles, confine Wolverine to one besides his ongoing(s) and give the books their own unique line-up. Cap here, Iron Man here, etc. it keeps things fresher.
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  9. #144
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    I for one, always liked the Avengers before Bendis. I liked the status of the golden boys of the MU superhero set. Let the X-Men be the underdog. Let the FF be the celebrities. THe Avengers were the pros. Each team and book had their own identity and I was fine with that. Granted, Bendis did try to give us something different that what we had (though in no way original), but I didn't like that it was at the cost of something that IMHO, worked and I liked. Had he maybe ressurected the Defenders with his "all-star" team, and left the Avengers for someone who wanted to continue working with the team as it was (and Bendis lovers always seem to forget that Avengers was at the top 10 during all of Busiek and Perez's run, selling much more than Bendis ever dreamed of selling, so it was doable), I might have been okay with it (though I doubt it, since I don't think I ever liked Bendis handling of the team, with the cute jokey talk and the endless decompression) at the very least, I'd still have someone dealing with big villains and high fantasy concepts, instead of ninjas and the Hood's gang. So far, Hickman's line-up really hasn't blown me away, but, at the very least, I'm excited for getting back the type of stories I used to like to read with the Avengers. Can't wait to be able to read Avengers again.

    Peace

  10. #145
    Commander Dark Guard CaptainMarvell's Avatar
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    I like the Avengers and the characters, but the stories, for me have always been lacking. Its this really powerful group of super heroes, but they fight villains they can easily beat. Sure Loki's powerful, but Thor is just as powerful if not more powerful. Hydra aka foot soldiers getting beatdowns. Red Skull... I mean, Cap can beat him pretty much on his own. They need bigger villains.

  11. #146
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMarvell View Post
    I like the Avengers and the characters, but the stories, for me have always been lacking. Its this really powerful group of super heroes, but they fight villains they can easily beat. Sure Loki's powerful, but Thor is just as powerful if not more powerful. Hydra aka foot soldiers getting beatdowns. Red Skull... I mean, Cap can beat him pretty much on his own. They need bigger villains.
    Not really.
    It's more a matter of writers who don't explore well the great Avengers foes of the past.

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ngers+Villains

    And there are many not mentioned in there, just waiting for that great break out story.

    Peace

  12. #147
    new VH soon ok Ed?? vh4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMarvell View Post
    I like the Avengers and the characters, but the stories, for me have always been lacking. Its this really powerful group of super heroes, but they fight villains they can easily beat. Sure Loki's powerful, but Thor is just as powerful if not more powerful. Hydra aka foot soldiers getting beatdowns. Red Skull... I mean, Cap can beat him pretty much on his own. They need bigger villains.
    I have the feeling that we the fans are going to get that epic-ness with Hickman in the driver's seat. Would like to see Vision and Monica Rambeau though and I'll be good.
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  13. #148
    Hex Magic Nemesis@'s Avatar
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    The Avengers are not boring. Kree-Skrull War, Under Siege, Avengers Forever, Dynasty Kang and other large arches prove it. Everything depends on the reader sympathize with the group.

  14. #149
    Elder Member Vic Vega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMarvell View Post
    I like the Avengers and the characters, but the stories, for me have always been lacking. Its this really powerful group of super heroes, but they fight villains they can easily beat. Sure Loki's powerful, but Thor is just as powerful if not more powerful. Hydra aka foot soldiers getting beatdowns. Red Skull... I mean, Cap can beat him pretty much on his own. They need bigger villains.
    I think Bendis gets bashed a bit too harshly around here but one problem I had with his run was
    that it tended to neglect the Avengers rogues.

    Sure, we got Ultron, Kang and Morgan La Fey but for the most part his run was about repurposing characters like Hood and Norman Osborne into Avengers foes as opposed to emphasizing characters like the Squadron Sinister, Lethal Legion, Graviton, Count Nafaria and Bres.
    Last edited by Vic Vega; 11-26-2012 at 10:39 AM.

  15. #150
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Bres? From the Formor? Wow, sure not a fan of Bendis run, but even I don't fault him for missing that gem from the past. The rest, I agree, and can even think of more neglected foes.

    Peace

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