View Poll Results: Which Morgan Edge do you prefer

Voters
22. In order to vote on this poll, you must be a registered user and/or logged in
  • Bronze Age

    8 36.36%
  • Crisis Age

    8 36.36%
  • NuDC Age

    6 27.27%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36
  1. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Yeah, because female black jewish don't exist, that's a well known fact.
    I don't really see the offensive part. Isn't it offensive to think every Jewish are white? Was Mohammad Ali offensive because he was black and muslim?
    I don't think that's what I said at all, if you will check my post. I was making a point about how entertainment--especially TV shows--will make one character stand for all the diversity--avoiding using a plurality of diverse characters. You seem to be trying to paint me as a racist and a bigot. I don't know why someone would want to put that spin on someone else's comments.

    I do think that it's less likely that a Jewish guy born as Morris Edelstein is going to be African-American. He's probably more likely to have a European ancestry--or at least be adopted by parents with that ancestry.

  2. #17
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by An Ear In The Fireplace View Post
    I don't think that's what I said at all, if you will check my post. I was making a point about how entertainment--especially TV shows--will make one character stand for all the diversity--avoiding using a plurality of diverse characters. You seem to be trying to paint me as a racist and a bigot. I don't know why someone would want to put that spin on someone else's comments.

    I do think that it's less likely that a Jewish guy born as Morris Edelstein is going to be African-American. He's probably more likely to have a European ancestry--or at least be adopted by parents with that ancestry.
    I'm not putting you as a racist, I'm just saying that this idea that putting two minorities in one character is somehow problematic is kinda weird to me.
    I mean, these people do exist, and I don't see the problem in acknowledging it.
    As I said, Mohammad Alo was a black and a muslim. Am I offending any of them if I put him in my story?
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  3. #18
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    here
    Posts
    18,965

    Default

    Wow, it's amazing how my complaint that they should have just used a new, different name for this character has drifted into some interesting territory.

    And as I originally tried to clarify, I just hate when they re-use a previous characters name / role and change things like race, sex, etc. when they could have that new character but just come up with an original name. Yes, many younger people may not be familiar with the original Morgan Edge(s), but for those of us who were also reading DC Comics back then, . . .

    The New 52's character of Morgan Edge has some interesting possibilities, but I think DC was lazy when it came to "creating" a name for him. (I feel the same way about an African-American Nick Fury, though it's a little different if they clearly make him the son of the original character.)
    Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  4. #19
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    7,534

    Default

    My question is though, why, even if one is familiar with the old Morgan Edge, is it anger inducing to see his race changed? There's certain characters, mainly the staple of heroes and villains, whose general appearances are fairly iconic, and are better off left alone whether they're caucasian or not, I certainly believe that. But supporting characters? I don't really see the big deal. And I'm definitely not assuming prejudice or racism has any part in this, I'm genuinely wondering why its bothersome.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-23-2012 at 10:50 AM.

  5. #20
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    here
    Posts
    18,965

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    My question is though, why, even if one is familiar with the old Morgan Edge, why is it anger inducing to see his race changed?
    It's lazy and unimaginative on DC's part.

    And to me, it just seems another way that DC is saying to older readers "We don't care about what you liked and remembered about our past history. You're going to die anyway, and when that happpens you won't be buying our comic books. So, screw you!"

    Why can't they just create new names for new characters?
    (It's not like they were probably worried about trademark / copyright issues over "Morgan Edge".)
    Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  6. #21
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    11,997

    Default

    I prefer the Post Crisis Morgan Edge who was an agent of Intergang and tried to sow the seeds of disharmony. Then, later on, he tried to usurp Lex's position in Metropolis.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I hate to sound like a racist or something, but why the hell did they have to make "Morgan Edge" an African American character? There was no need to change his race.

    Surely someone at DC could have created a brand-new African American character with a new, original name to fill that role . . . why the f*@# did they have to steal the name of a formerly white character for that?
    Because it is all about diversity. In the case of Morgan Edge, unlike the classic supporting cast, he's not as ingrained in pop culture. Hence they can go and re-imagine him as an African American, instead of a white man.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Ear In The Fireplace
    And Kirby designed Morgan Edge after Kevin McCarthy.
    I did not know that.

  7. #22
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    7,534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    It's lazy and unimaginative on DC's part.

    And to me, it just seems another way that DC is saying to older readers "We don't care about what you liked and remembered about our past history. You're going to die anyway, and when that happpens you won't be buying our comic books. So, screw you!"

    Why can't they just create new names for new characters?
    (It's not like they were probably worried about trademark / copyright issues over "Morgan Edge".)
    I guess I just don't see what's lazy or unimaginative about it. Frankly because I don't really get equating imagination into what amounts to a basic human appearance in the first place. Lazy seems like a misplaced adjective as well. What suggests more effort required in creating a new black character as a villainous tycoon as opposed to reimagining a fairly non iconic character whose race is different? Doesn't seem like any significant difference in effort either way to me. Nor do I see how just changing skin color in any way equates to a screw you to older fan base. That's like saying you felt screwed over when they made Lois's hair red instead of black for a while. Or when the blonde Hippolyta was made a brunette. Then made blonde again. In-born physical traits of characters of much higher status than Morgan Edge have been changed before, why is it a bigger deal when its skin color?
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-23-2012 at 11:05 AM.

  8. #23

    Default

    It is an opinion poll. And my opinion is that I like the old stories and it would be nice to keep them in continuity.

    If you recast Donald Trump as a black man doesn't it change the narrative? It shouldn't be about skin colour, but three hundred years of history says that sometimes it often is.

  9. #24
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    14,592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    The New 52's character of Morgan Edge has some interesting possibilities, but I think DC was lazy when it came to "creating" a name for him. (I feel the same way about an African-American Nick Fury, though it's a little different if they clearly make him the son of the original character.)
    Yet another character Kirby had part in the creation of.

    Also, do you think that they might be going "Hey, we have characters named Edge and Fury. Let's replace/redesign them with a likeness of an angry black guy."
    Jean Grey, Gwen Stacy, Professor X, Mar-Vell, Richard Rider, Kid Loki- Bring Them Back!!!

  10. #25
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    7,534

    Default

    More likely that's just you finding a new way to complain about something. Plenty of black characters in comics that don't adhere to ridiculous stereotypes.

  11. #26
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    30,892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    And Kevin McCarthy is hardly a modern looking face.
    Yes...ever since we added the second nostril in 1974, faces sure are different...
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  12. #27
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    Yes...ever since we added the second nostril in 1974, faces sure are different...
    Are you saying you look at these photos and don't think "1950s"?



    Does he look like ANYONE you'd see on the street or in a boardroom today? No. He doesn't. You can't cast comics that are supposed to be set in the modern day as is if they were a period piece. Writers and artists need to consider what a television executive TODAY would look like and draw that, not some retro vision of what execs from '56 used to look like. I accept the New 52 Morgan Edge as someone who might exist today. Continuing to model the character after McCarthy would look like a caricature at this point, imo.

  13. #28

    Default

    Most execs still wear finely tailored suits. Most execs still go to a good barber and comb their hair. It's hard to convey in publicity stills how McCarthy carried himself, but it comes across in the way Jack drew those panels. Things haven't changed that much. Rich white men still hold a lot of power. I understand that DC wants to create positive role models, but Morgan Edge was never intended to be that. So it's hard to understand the why for in dumping everything that Kirby created except for the names. Did they just look at the name and think oh there's a Morgan Freeman so Morgan could be a Black name, let's make this character Black, regardless of what he was supposed to represent.

    Funnily enough, I have no problem with Perry White being an African-American. Perry was always a kind of neutral character--not like J. Jonah Jameson, more like Robbie Robertson.

    Have they tried to change "Terrible" Turpin, too? After all, he goes back to the Golden Age--being Brooklyn from the Boy Commandos and modelled after Jack Kirby himself. Those modern evolved people must really hate that. My god he wears a derby! I think I'm gonna faint.

  14. #29
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    7,534

    Default

    I understand that DC wants to create positive role models, but Morgan Edge was never intended to be that.
    Considering the way he's been characterized thus far, I don't see why you're making the mistake of assuming that Edge was made black in order to create a positive role model. They know he's not intended to be that, I know this because just reading his few appearances in Superman to date shows me that he's still not.

    So it's hard to understand the why for in dumping everything that Kirby created except for the names.
    Its pretty difficult to make a reasonable claim that they're dumping everything Kirby created here just because they changed the man's skin color. Perhaps their plans for him are very Kirby-esque. Maybe not. But we'll find that out in time, where its certainly not reasonable to make that claim now, at least in regards to this character.

    Did they just look at the name and think oh there's a Morgan Freeman so Morgan could be a Black name, let's make this character Black, regardless of what he was supposed to represent.
    Again, what does what Morgan Edge represents have to do with anything? He's black and now suddenly he can't be a man of similar nature than he was in the past? Character representation and race do not have to adhere to any specific guidelines. That's pretty much the definition of stereotype.

    In any case I'm not judging not liking the change. I'm just having a hard time understanding these specific reasons is all. Just want to clarify because I know these kinds of topics can get touchy and while I may engage in a debate on it, I certainly won't get on a pedestal and start making accusations of racism.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-24-2012 at 01:09 AM.

  15. #30
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    30,892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Are you saying you look at these photos and don't think "1950s"?
    Of course I do: they're in black and white and he's in a old fashioned suit with what appears to be shoe polish in his hair. His face, however, looks perfectly normal.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •