Son Goku vs, Nova

[1505627]

Son goku, as of the beginning of the buu saga, vs. the richard rider Nova

[Stigma Rex]

Son goku, as of the end of DBZ, vs. the richard rider Nova

Correct me if I'm wrong but Goku opperates on an entirely different level then Nova.

[Hazard]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Goku opperates on an entirely different level then Nova.

Not really. Guy has solid high end showings, especially in Annihilation.

[GrampaGen]

Not really. Guy has solid high end showings, especially in Annihilation.

Unfortunately, they're not on the level of Goku at the end of DBZ, at least in terms of reactions and energy projection.

If Richard starts with gravimetric shields up, he'll manage to survive for a short while. Since Annihilation proper, He'd taken hits from Strontian, Gladiator's cousin (whose upper limits I'm not sure of) the Silver Surfer (albeit Norrin was merely putting on a show for Galactus) and survived being in the wake of an exploding Celestial, so I don't think Goku will be able to physically knock him out.

However, Goku's fighting and innate reflex speed is an order of magnitude greater than Nova's - unassisted by a properly calculated Worldmind - and the amount of energy he can put out can frag the Earth pretty easily.

Other than the off chance that Nova can tank Goku's punches enough for Worldmind to chuck him into a Stargate straight into space, more often than not Goku fires off a Kamehameha at the sound of the bell before Nova can brace himself.

[big_adventure]

In an unprepped fight, the problem for Nova is likely to be speed. Isn't end of series Goku supposed to be not that far below lightspeed in reaction time? If I'm wrong, feel free to correct - I'm not a DBZ expert by any measure.

If I'm telling it straight, Nova can't play at that speed-level without prep. At his basic level, he's legitimately a speedster, but just super/hypersonic, and nowhere near lightspeed.

Give Richie some prep and he can:

1. Pre-amp defenses to way-past-planet-busting levels. See: fights a pissed off Silver Surfer (doesn't win, but doesn't insta-die either); gets sucked through Galactus' planet converter while it is processing a planet and comes through unharmed (though Worldmind ain't happy); without prepping defenses or himself, slams into an impenetrable forcefield at ridiculously high multiples of lightspeed and lives (he's badly injured, but he heals, and remember this is with ZERO awareness that the hit was coming), takes the Galactus multiple-solar-system-disintegrating Wave head on without a scratch, etc.
2. Get Worldmind to amp his reflexes MASSIVELY - see Annihilation for feats on this.
3. Pin Goku with a gravimetric field hundreds of times more powerful than the one his brother used to pin Strontian. Notes for the unitiated, a Strontian is Gladiator's race (and Strontian is his cousin) - and a Strontian could hammer Goku, plus this was Richie's brother, who had the tiniest, most miniscule imaginable fraction of Nova Prime's power.
4. Fire some stargates to open in Goku's brain and body. Even if Goku can "survive", he's not going to fight too well or come back from having his body divided into a dozen pieces and having those pieces scattered around the universe.

[BitVyper]

It doesn't really affect this match, since Nova could just destroy him again in a prepped fight (by the sounds of it, anyway), but in fairness, he may operate just fine with having his body destroyed (only as a one shot deal though), since he can teleport out of the afterlife. We saw during the Cell Game that being killed doesn't "pin" or otherwise disable him for any meaningful length of time, and his spirit body has all his regular abilities, so there's not much argument for a ten count. He just gets ejected from the ring, and he's capable of returning under his own power immediately. Even if he actually needs a pass (which seems unlikely, given that heaven basically has to ask him nicely to come back at the end of his time), and even if they were for some reason unwilling to grant it (which also seems unlikely, given his reputation and the fact that he only follows heaven's rules because he's a nice guy), a bloodlusted Goku could always beat it out of them. So in an arena match, one effectively has to kill Goku twice for it to take, since the first time is essentially just a ring out that he can return from under his own power. Probably instantly, at that.

I dunno; I generally don't like to treat death like it has no meaning, but in this case, it kind of doesn't. At least the first time.

[Beadle]

You do realise you've just opened up the possibility for a whole new slew of Goku vs Superman threads, right?

[Surtur]

This is the first time I've ever heard anyone claim you have to destroy Goku twice in the arena. I kinda think destroying his body should count as a win just fine. His spirit doesn't stick around or reform in the arena itself. I can't imagine why you'd need to destroy him twice.

[BitVyper]

The thing is that killing him doesn't do anything meaningful the first time besides giving him a halo and ejecting him from the arena. It's like blowing up Daffy Duck. He can self-rez instantly.

[Surtur]

If he reformed in the arena you might have a point, but he reforms in the afterlife. Plus if the guy is already dead then killing him again..should do nothing. Since I can't ever recall it being said in DBZ destroying the "dead" version of someone prevents them from going back to the afterlife.

[BitVyper]

If he reformed in the arena you might have a point, but he reforms in the afterlife.

That just makes it a ring-out scenario, and Goku can return to the ring under his own power. And it's not even a matter of reforming - there is literally no period where he does not exist as a physical being as demonstrated in the Cell Game. Killing him while he's "alive" does essentially nothing but ring him out.

Plus if the guy is already dead then killing him again..should do nothing.

Death has explicit rules in the DBZ universe. Dying while "dead" equals oblivion.

[Surtur]

Yeah, I still don't think he should have to have his body destroyed twice to count as an arena win. If his body is destroyed then there is a point where he is dead, even if it's just a split second. I can't ever recall it being shown/stated that Goku *always* exists.

You'd most likely need a mod ruling if you want to claim Goku now requires not 1, but two bodily destructions to count as a win.

[BitVyper]

Like I would agree with you under most circumstances, Surtur, but DBZ goes a long way toward demonstrating that Goku dying only means anything because Goku plays by the rules. It is otherwise equal in gravity to changing his underwear.

[BitVyper]

Yeah, I still don't think he should have to have his body destroyed twice to count as an arena win. If his body is destroyed then there is a point where he is dead, even if it's just a split second. I can't ever recall it being shown/stated that Goku *always* exists.

Cell Game. Cell blows up and Goku and King Kai are not even affected beyond now being designated as "dead" via haloes. We also saw Goku being in line for the afterlife pretty much straight away after he was killed, and Enma told us that Radditz had gotten there before him (far enough ahead that Goku never saw him in line, and we know Radditz still had a body because he fought Enma), so while it wasn't directly shown that time, it was pretty effectively demonstrated that dying means you just pop right out in the afterlife.

I agree that it probably shouldn't count, but based on the arena rules, it kind of does.

[Surtur]

Yeah, but for me if your body is destroyed and you aren't reforming in the arena..that is a loss. If his body is destroyed even if it reverts back to its original form in the afterlife..there is still a moment where his body is destroyed.

Cell Game. Cell blows up and Goku and King Kai are not even affected beyond now being designated as "dead" via haloes. We also saw Goku being in line for the afterlife pretty much straight away after he was killed, and Enma told us that Radditz had gotten there before him (far enough ahead that Goku never saw him in line), so while it wasn't directly shown that time, it was pretty effectively demonstrated that dying means you just pop right out in the afterlife.

But we didn't see that Goku's body didn't have to reform..it could of just done so very quickly. We never saw Goku die and then simultaneously a halo appears above his head in the exact same moment.