Harbinger #6 Discussion and SPOILERS

[Hawkeyeps]

I posted this on the V boards, I'll do here also-

What if Kris is extablished as the leader and ups dying instead of Torque, could that be the imepetus that leads Faith to turn her idealism in to hard actions?

What if Faith hooks up with Torque? Their kid would likely be able to fly, have super strength and be invulnerable....hmmmm.

[AJBopp]

I totally agree, Harada is the one who is currently the most questionable. But you're confusing what I'm saying.

i think I understand what you're saying, but I object to it. I hate to take the point to extremes, but by the logic you've given Victor Von Doom has no evil intent either. The ability of a man to justify or excuse evil acts for the greater good does not, in my mind, make the intent any less evil. You don't get to decide whether your intent is evil or not, either in comics or in real life.

[Captain Craig]

Ahhhhh, crap. This thread is for real now. Hitler card in play.

[BugsySig]

Ahhhhh, crap. This thread is for real now. Hitler card in play.

I believe as soon as Hitler is mentioned in any thread not directly involing a story about Nazis, then said thread has officially derailed and should immediately be archived.

[AJBopp]

Ahhhhh, crap. This thread is for real now. Hitler card in play.

I believe as soon as Hitler is mentioned in any thread not directly involing a story about Nazis, then said thread has officially derailed and should immediately be archived.

Yeah, normally I'd agree, and I thought hard before posting that. But in this case the reference is completely relevant.

EDIT: Fixed it.

[BugsySig]

Yeah, normally I'd agree, and I thought hard before posting that. But in this case the reference is completely relevant.

EDIT: Fixed it.

Haha. Well played, sir. Well played.

Let us continue our discussion...lol

[JaggedFel]

I don't think harada is not telling people in advance that they may die seeing as he does not mind force his followers to follow him and is not torturing livewire for the backstabbing
That said clearly he believes because he has the power he should fix the world. Pretty standard.

On the other side the rapist and robbers. Still I would say you are suppose to be rooting for the main character and his white rebel squad againt the UN dominators

[hunter_peterson]

i think I understand what you're saying, but I object to it. I hate to take the point to extremes, but by the logic you've given Victor Von Doom has no evil intent either. The ability of a man to justify or excuse evil acts for the greater good does not, in my mind, make the intent any less evil. You don't get to decide whether your intent is evil or not, either in comics or in real life.

Hah, I didn't see this until the Hitler bit was removed, so I miss out on the Hitler-carding! Damn! :P

I find your viewpoint interesting because it works on the assumption that evil is not only an outside force that is objectively identifiable, but that others can and will be who decides whether or not your morality is "evil". It's a rather absolutist approach to good/evil, which would be where the gap between our arguments comes from. For the purposes of argument, I would say that if your idea of "good" is to not harm others, then Harada is evil, but if your idea of "good" is to make a better world, then he's harder to put in that box. Personally, I think he's crossed the line too often, but could still be a force for good if he confronted his own pride and arrogance.

[AJBopp]

Hah, I didn't see this until the Hitler bit was removed, so I miss out on the Hitler-carding! Damn! :P

I find your viewpoint interesting because it works on the assumption that evil is not only an outside force that is objectively identifiable, but that others can and will be who decides whether or not your morality is "evil". It's a rather absolutist approach to good/evil, which would be where the gap between our arguments comes from. For the purposes of argument, I would say that if your idea of "good" is to not harm others, then Harada is evil, but if your idea of "good" is to make a better world, then he's harder to put in that box. Personally, I think he's crossed the line too often, but could still be a force for good if he confronted his own pride and arrogance.

At the very least, I don't think one can be said to have good intent if one's methods include mental control, manipulation, and memory tampering (selectively removing memories you don't want people to have).

[hunter_peterson]

At the very least, I don't think one can be said to have good intent if one's methods include mental control, manipulation, and memory tampering (selectively removing memories you don't want people to have).

That's only if you limit intent to the moment before the act, though. The actual aims Harada has aren't to control, manipulate and alter people's minds, those are just means of achieving his intentions, which are to save the world from itself. Which isn't to say I think he's right, just that his intent is disconnected from the present because he's so overtly concerned with the future. (Which would make for a very interesting encounter with Rai, actually...)

[Christopher Cross Is God]

At the very least, I don't think one can be said to have good intent if one's methods include mental control, manipulation, and memory tampering (selectively removing memories you don't want people to have).

So you're saying certain members of the Justice League don't have good intent because they had Zatanna manipulate the minds of Dr Light & Catwoman, including memory tampering?

[Marvel_Adam]

Double post -- sorry!

[Marvel_Adam]

We discuss this book in detail on the new podcast -- Valiant Future (see my signature for the link), but in short -- I'm really loving this book, and Kris is awesome!! The fact that she has no powers makes it all the better. :)

[AJBopp]

So you're saying certain members of the Justice League don't have good intent because they had Zatanna manipulate the minds of Dr Light & Catwoman, including memory tampering?

Certainly not in that case. I think that was the entire point of that particular story, in fact.

However, that particular story is one I try to do a little personal memory wiping of on myself :)

[BugsySig]

Certainly not in that case. I think that was the entire point of that particular story, in fact.

However, that particular story is one I try to do a little personal memory wiping of on myself :)

I like to use it to wipe something else.