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  1. #46
    Junior Member Hawkeyeps's Avatar
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    I posted this on the V boards, I'll do here also-

    What if Kris is extablished as the leader and ups dying instead of Torque, could that be the imepetus that leads Faith to turn her idealism in to hard actions?

    What if Faith hooks up with Torque? Their kid would likely be able to fly, have super strength and be invulnerable....hmmmm.

  2. #47
    Senior Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter_peterson View Post
    I totally agree, Harada is the one who is currently the most questionable. But you're confusing what I'm saying.
    i think I understand what you're saying, but I object to it. I hate to take the point to extremes, but by the logic you've given Victor Von Doom has no evil intent either. The ability of a man to justify or excuse evil acts for the greater good does not, in my mind, make the intent any less evil. You don't get to decide whether your intent is evil or not, either in comics or in real life.
    Last edited by AJBopp; 11-26-2012 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Replaced the ultimate derail reference
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  3. #48
    Senior Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    Ahhhhh, crap. This thread is for real now. Hitler card in play.
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  4. #49
    Verily VALIANT! BugsySig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Craig View Post
    Ahhhhh, crap. This thread is for real now. Hitler card in play.
    I believe as soon as Hitler is mentioned in any thread not directly involing a story about Nazis, then said thread has officially derailed and should immediately be archived.
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  5. #50
    Senior Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Craig View Post
    Ahhhhh, crap. This thread is for real now. Hitler card in play.
    Quote Originally Posted by BugsySig View Post
    I believe as soon as Hitler is mentioned in any thread not directly involing a story about Nazis, then said thread has officially derailed and should immediately be archived.
    Yeah, normally I'd agree, and I thought hard before posting that. But in this case the reference is completely relevant.

    EDIT: Fixed it.
    Last edited by AJBopp; 11-26-2012 at 12:38 PM.
    In my opinion is implied in every post. Please make an effort to remember that.

  6. #51
    Verily VALIANT! BugsySig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Yeah, normally I'd agree, and I thought hard before posting that. But in this case the reference is completely relevant.

    EDIT: Fixed it.
    Haha. Well played, sir. Well played.

    Let us continue our discussion...lol
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  7. #52
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    I don't think harada is not telling people in advance that they may die seeing as he does not mind force his followers to follow him and is not torturing livewire for the backstabbing
    That said clearly he believes because he has the power he should fix the world. Pretty standard.

    On the other side the rapist and robbers. Still I would say you are suppose to be rooting for the main character and his white rebel squad againt the UN dominators
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  8. #53
    Senior Member hunter_peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    i think I understand what you're saying, but I object to it. I hate to take the point to extremes, but by the logic you've given Victor Von Doom has no evil intent either. The ability of a man to justify or excuse evil acts for the greater good does not, in my mind, make the intent any less evil. You don't get to decide whether your intent is evil or not, either in comics or in real life.
    Hah, I didn't see this until the Hitler bit was removed, so I miss out on the Hitler-carding! Damn! :P

    I find your viewpoint interesting because it works on the assumption that evil is not only an outside force that is objectively identifiable, but that others can and will be who decides whether or not your morality is "evil". It's a rather absolutist approach to good/evil, which would be where the gap between our arguments comes from. For the purposes of argument, I would say that if your idea of "good" is to not harm others, then Harada is evil, but if your idea of "good" is to make a better world, then he's harder to put in that box. Personally, I think he's crossed the line too often, but could still be a force for good if he confronted his own pride and arrogance.
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  9. #54
    Senior Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter_peterson View Post
    Hah, I didn't see this until the Hitler bit was removed, so I miss out on the Hitler-carding! Damn! :P

    I find your viewpoint interesting because it works on the assumption that evil is not only an outside force that is objectively identifiable, but that others can and will be who decides whether or not your morality is "evil". It's a rather absolutist approach to good/evil, which would be where the gap between our arguments comes from. For the purposes of argument, I would say that if your idea of "good" is to not harm others, then Harada is evil, but if your idea of "good" is to make a better world, then he's harder to put in that box. Personally, I think he's crossed the line too often, but could still be a force for good if he confronted his own pride and arrogance.
    At the very least, I don't think one can be said to have good intent if one's methods include mental control, manipulation, and memory tampering (selectively removing memories you don't want people to have).
    In my opinion is implied in every post. Please make an effort to remember that.

  10. #55
    Senior Member hunter_peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    At the very least, I don't think one can be said to have good intent if one's methods include mental control, manipulation, and memory tampering (selectively removing memories you don't want people to have).
    That's only if you limit intent to the moment before the act, though. The actual aims Harada has aren't to control, manipulate and alter people's minds, those are just means of achieving his intentions, which are to save the world from itself. Which isn't to say I think he's right, just that his intent is disconnected from the present because he's so overtly concerned with the future. (Which would make for a very interesting encounter with Rai, actually...)
    Looking for artists, know I won't find any. That blows.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    At the very least, I don't think one can be said to have good intent if one's methods include mental control, manipulation, and memory tampering (selectively removing memories you don't want people to have).

    So you're saying certain members of the Justice League don't have good intent because they had Zatanna manipulate the minds of Dr Light & Catwoman, including memory tampering?

  12. #57
    Junior Member Marvel_Adam's Avatar
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    Double post -- sorry!
    Last edited by Marvel_Adam; 11-27-2012 at 12:12 PM.

  13. #58
    Junior Member Marvel_Adam's Avatar
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    We discuss this book in detail on the new podcast -- Valiant Future (see my signature for the link), but in short -- I'm really loving this book, and Kris is awesome!! The fact that she has no powers makes it all the better. :)

  14. #59
    Senior Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Cross Is God View Post
    So you're saying certain members of the Justice League don't have good intent because they had Zatanna manipulate the minds of Dr Light & Catwoman, including memory tampering?
    Certainly not in that case. I think that was the entire point of that particular story, in fact.

    However, that particular story is one I try to do a little personal memory wiping of on myself :)
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  15. #60
    Verily VALIANT! BugsySig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Certainly not in that case. I think that was the entire point of that particular story, in fact.

    However, that particular story is one I try to do a little personal memory wiping of on myself :)
    I like to use it to wipe something else.
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