Kingdom Come or Dark Knight Returns?

[stk]

I don't see how one can come away from TDKR with a favorable impression of Superman. At best, he's a lackey who pulls a few punches, hopes his boss doesn't notice and that it squares things with the friends he betrayed. Superman is the guy fighting for something he doesn't even believe in.

Yeah, the greater good. What a lousy ideal, right? What kind of loser fights for that?

[Mr. Holmes]

On another note, I thought New Frontier did a great spin on the whole "government agent" angle with Superman. I'm guessing it was intentionally taking form DKR, especially the relationship with Batman.

[Mat001]

If you read the tie-in issue that Cooke did later, it highlights the fake conflict that the two engaged in that was only referred to in the main series.

[dupersuper]

His terrible movies and games.

I liked a couple of his games...

[Superman Priime]

Kingdom Come easily. As a Superman fan, I detest Dark Knight Returns and its sequel. I don't know how any Superman fan can like DKR.

[Kurosawa]

On another note, I thought New Frontier did a great spin on the whole "government agent" angle with Superman. I'm guessing it was intentionally taking form DKR, especially the relationship with Batman.

New Frontier is DKR and Kingdom Come done right.

[Superman Priime]

DKR is ten times the comic Kingdom Come is, imo.

Ten times worse, you mean.

[Kurosawa]

Ten times worse, you mean.

It's truly horrid, probably the most overrated comic ever done.

That said, Superman got off easy compared to Dick Grayson in DKSA. If Miller hates Superman (and he does), then what he feels about Dick Grayson is something even beyond hate.

[stk]

Ten times worse, you mean.

Only for someone with no objectivity or discrimination.

[T Hedge Coke]

New Frontier is DKR and Kingdom Come done right.

I like parts of New Frontier, but that stupid red they paint the guy in at the beginning kills it from the get-go for me. That and the faux-important politics. It's cute and all, but it's not a particularly glowing homage or tackling of an era.

I think DKR and Kingdom Come were DKR and Kingdom Come done right.

[dancj]

I vaguely remember New Frontier being merely okay. I've pretty much forgotten it now because it made no impression on me.

I've never quite understood why it's loved so much by so many people.

[Mr. Holmes]

New Frontier is by far my favorite DCU-wide story ever made. The shared universe in the context of history, the superhero politics, the heart in the ensemble of characters, etc. I prefer it to Watchmen.

[Aquacatlungfish]

Kingdom Come easily. As a Superman fan, I detest Dark Knight Returns and its sequel. I don't know how any Superman fan can like DKR.

Because it's a great story with great art, pace and characterization. Most Superman fans hate DKR because Superman lost a fight.

[dupersuper]

Because it's a great story with great art, pace and characterization. Most Superman fans hate DKR because Superman lost a fight.

Which is odd, as he didn't, really. I can see hating that he was too much of a government lapdog though. As a Supes fan I personally love the bit with a depowered, dying Superman in the bomb blast thinking something like "Look what they did. They're stupid, mean and small. But please: let me help them."

[Kurosawa]

I like parts of New Frontier, but that stupid red they paint the guy in at the beginning kills it from the get-go for me. That and the faux-important politics. It's cute and all, but it's not a particularly glowing homage or tackling of an era.

I think DKR and Kingdom Come were DKR and Kingdom Come done right.

New Frontier is vastly superior to me, mostly because I like constructive stories and not deconstructive stories. It's also why I like Grant Morrison more than any of the big 80's writers. I've seen superheroes and Superman in particular torn apart for almost 30 years now, so when someone actually puts them back together it's refreshing.

That said, Grant Morrison is no Elliot Maggin.