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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    I can't say I would mind an "off-hand comment" once in a while. But then again, that kind of extraneous exposition can start to pile up; once you start throwing in lines of exposition that aren't integral to the story, where do you stop? Some readers would start wanted to know if ARGUS expedited her green card so they could pay her a stipend, and where she guest lectures...and pretty soon, as you suggest, we're hearing about her shampoo. I think Azzarello and Chiang are going for a clear focus on storytelling, which I appreciate; if a comment isn't needed for the story, they don't want to just tack it on. I can get behind that, even though it may leave me curious about some things. Maybe DC just needs to complement the stories with more informative "who's who" pages.
    It is the same for me, and as long as Diana is all over the place with her mission I really don't want or need such comments since they could at times feel shoehorned into a slot where they don't really belong. If they however slow down an issue/scene, I can appreciate if they added some of those background details, like they did back in #5 with Diana's tomato breakfast.

  2. #152
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    'What do they do for a living?' and 'Who are their friends?' are questions you can answer for just about any superhero. The 'non-superhero' side is just as important/interesting as the superhero side of their lives to some folks (judging by the fact that every superhero I can think of has a job of some sort or an explanation for how they get by in life, I'll say maybe it's more than 'some' ;) )

    And I'm another one who is curious as to London. She went from returning to the US with Steve to London...why? How? Does she maintain a secret ID? (the write-up for Diana says yes, but we haven't seen it) Does Wonder Woman live in a London flat and do people know it?

    The supporting cast of the non-superhero life as well as what they do with their 'down time' provide depth and color to characters and I feel it's lacking in Wonder Woman. She woke up in a bed in London and suddenly, after five years of living outside of Themyscira, develops a supporting cast as if those five years where every other hero was building theirs simply didn't exist? For me, it's a gaping hole in the story I'd like to see filled one day.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    The supporting cast of the non-superhero life as well as what they do with their 'down time' provide depth and color to characters and I feel it's lacking in Wonder Woman. She woke up in a bed in London and suddenly, after five years of living outside of Themyscira, develops a supporting cast as if those five years where every other hero was building theirs simply didn't exist? For me, it's a gaping hole in the story I'd like to see filled one day.
    I'll point out it's actually the fewest superheroes that so far have just 'regular joe' friends. Barbara Gordon had 1 she rooms with (but didn't she just rid herself of her?), Supergirl's 2 are both banshees, TT members...none so far, Superman...eh, Jimmy, Batman...doesn't have friends, Selina got two killed and replaced the really close one (doubles as her fence). Even your friendly neighborhood Nightwing appears to be pretty stripped of personal relationships.
    So Diana's tiny social circle may not be so odd as it seems...plus we may risk she has been shielded by ARGUS for some time (both shielding her from the world (in case they again try to mine the 'newcomer' angle) and the world from her (incase she threw another fit...Johns :( )) before she found out and moved on.

  4. #154
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    I'll point out it's actually the fewest superheroes that so far have just 'regular joe' friends. Barbara Gordon had 1 she rooms with (but didn't she just rid herself of her?), Supergirl's 2 are both banshees, TT members...none so far, Superman...eh, Jimmy, Batman...doesn't have friends, Selina got two killed and replaced the really close one (doubles as her fence). Even your friendly neighborhood Nightwing appears to be pretty stripped of personal relationships.
    So Diana's tiny social circle may not be so odd as it seems...plus we may risk she has been shielded by ARGUS for some time (both shielding her from the world (in case they again try to mine the 'newcomer' angle) and the world from her (incase she threw another fit...Johns :( )) before she found out and moved on.
    I'm not saying they necessarily have to be friends, but they do (for the most part) have lives when they're not out fighting the bad guys. There is a world they interact with in some fashion - Clark Kent has a job, co-workers, neighbors; Bruce Wayne runs a company (sometimes ;) )has Alfred, Lucius, girlfriends; Barry Allen is a police scientist with co-workers, a girlfriend; Hal Jordan is a test pilot who has Carol and the folks at Ferris (Hal is not the best nu52 example, btw, since his book didn't skip a beat/soft-reboot when the nu-52 started)

    Point is that these folks *do* things and *know* people and have established supporting cast, but the way Azz has written Diana in her own book is that she lived alone, knew no one, hung out with nobody, has no job, no neighbors, etc. until five years after leaving home when she suddenly develops ties to people. It doesn't make any sense to me considering how easily she stepped into the world of the gods and made friends with Zola.

    Azzarello hasn't made her out to be an isolated loner - there is nothing in the story or in her personality that says she lives in a flat in London and hides away from the entire world (in which case she would probably have been better off taking a room on the JL satellite). She goes to a club, hangs out with people...but no one existed in her non-existent life before WW #1.

    Like I said, to me it's a glaring omission.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I'm not saying they necessarily have to be friends, but they do (for the most part) have lives when they're not out fighting the bad guys. There is a world they interact with in some fashion - Clark Kent has a job, co-workers, neighbors; Bruce Wayne runs a company (sometimes ;) )has Alfred, Lucius, girlfriends; Barry Allen is a police scientist with co-workers, a girlfriend; Hal Jordan is a test pilot who has Carol and the folks at Ferris (Hal is not the best nu52 example, btw, since his book didn't skip a beat/soft-reboot when the nu-52 started)

    Point is that these folks *do* things and *know* people and have established supporting cast, but the way Azz has written Diana in her own book is that she lived alone, knew no one, hung out with nobody, has no job, no neighbors, etc. until five years after leaving home when she suddenly develops ties to people. It doesn't make any sense to me considering how easily she stepped into the world of the gods and made friends with Zola.

    Azzarello hasn't made her out to be an isolated loner - there is nothing in the story or in her personality that says she lives in a flat in London and hides away from the entire world (in which case she would probably have been better off taking a room on the JL satellite). She goes to a club, hangs out with people...but no one existed in her non-existent life before WW #1.

    Like I said, to me it's a glaring omission.
    It all depends on how much we can assume about her daily life. I get what you are saying, but the thing is that just because we haven't been introduced to her neighbours and such, doesn't mean they aren't there (so far they just haven't had a reason to show them).

  6. #156
    Senior Member wagthedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    It all depends on how much we can assume about her daily life. I get what you are saying, but the thing is that just because we haven't been introduced to her neighbours and such, doesn't mean they aren't there (so far they just haven't had a reason to show them).
    I guess after 14 issues, (15 if you include the zero issue) is not a long enough time to get even little tidbits of information. We must slavishly support the writer because he has a master plan where all our questions will be answered.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog View Post
    I guess after 14 issues, (15 if you include the zero issue) is not a long enough time to get even little tidbits of information. We must slavishly support the writer because he has a master plan where all our questions will be answered.
    Since the story as nothing to do with Diana's downtime and because he cba with adding AvX info boxes for your convenience?

  8. #158
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Since the story as nothing to do with Diana's downtime and because he cba with adding AvX info boxes for your convenience?
    Isn't the story about Wonder Woman? I would like to know stuff about Wonder Woman.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
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  9. #159
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Since the story as nothing to do with Diana's downtime and because he cba with adding AvX info boxes for your convenience?
    Here's the thing (for me at least)

    I'm enjoying the story overall but I find it ridiculously decompressed. I think the first 14 issues could have been done in half that which would have left plenty of time for 'down time' or for at least seeing what it's like when she's not trying to protect/find a baby.

    Think about it.

    14 issues. Protect the baby. Lose the baby (to Hades). Recover the baby. Protect the baby. Lose the baby (to Apollo). Recover the baby. Protect the baby. Lose the baby (to Hermes). Try to recover the baby.

    0 was a nice change of pace, and I wouldn't mind a bit of pace changing in between this cyclical plotline, but Azzarello clearly doesn't seem interested :(

  10. #160
    Infâme et fier de l'ętre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Here's the thing (for me at least)

    I'm enjoying the story overall but I find it ridiculously decompressed. I think the first 14 issues could have been done in half that which would have left plenty of time for 'down time' or for at least seeing what it's like when she's not trying to protect/find a baby.

    Think about it.

    14 issues. Protect the baby. Lose the baby (to Hades). Recover the baby. Protect the baby. Lose the baby (to Apollo). Recover the baby. Protect the baby. Lose the baby (to Hermes). Try to recover the baby.

    0 was a nice change of pace, and I wouldn't mind a bit of pace changing in between this cyclical plotline, but Azzarello clearly doesn't seem interested :(
    I'm not sure how much "downtime" it would have been realistic to have though. I mean, think about it . Since the start of issue 5, Diana is always on the move. I just can't picture a moment in the narrative where it would have felt "natural" to have her go downtime. When Zola is trapped in Hell? Nah, that doesn't feel right? When Appolo kidnapps Zola? When Hermes is away with the baby? None of this feel "right" to me. In fact, one could argue she already had downtimes when the narrative allowed it. Start of issue 5? Breakfast. Zola is back from Hell? Downtime, they go check her doctor. I'm not sure what else would have been done, appart from more downtime after issue 10.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Isn't the story about Wonder Woman? I would like to know stuff about Wonder Woman.
    And have you not been given information about Wonder Woman? Or are you only interesting in trivia?

    I thought this was a comic book with superheroes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Here's the thing (for me at least)

    I'm enjoying the story overall but I find it ridiculously decompressed. I think the first 14 issues could have been done in half that which would have left plenty of time for 'down time' or for at least seeing what it's like when she's not trying to protect/find a baby.

    Think about it.
    I'd rather not think about how bad the story would be.

    14 issues. Protect the baby. Lose the baby (to Hades). Recover the baby. Protect the baby. Lose the baby (to Apollo). Recover the baby. Protect the baby. Lose the baby (to Hermes). Try to recover the baby.

    0 was a nice change of pace, and I wouldn't mind a bit of pace changing in between this cyclical plotline, but Azzarello clearly doesn't seem interested :(
    Well DC isn't aiming for trade friendly 4-6 issue arc's any more.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Here's the thing (for me at least)

    I'm enjoying the story overall but I find it ridiculously decompressed. I think the first 14 issues could have been done in half that which would have left plenty of time for 'down time' or for at least seeing what it's like when she's not trying to protect/find a baby.
    It's moving faster now, isn't it? Not counting a two-panel teaser in #12 that only introduced the Firstborn's arm, it has taken two issues to get from introducing the Firstborn to revealing that he is the firstborn child of Zeus and Hera, fortetold to take Zeus' place, ordered killed but raised by nature, and then buried and wiped from history by Zeus and his brothers. And in the same two issues that give us the Firstborn's origins, we also get the origin and introduction of Siracca, as well as Wonder Woman's embrace of Siracca as a sister. AND we see War having a falling out with his siblings and Dionysus, almost as soon as he is introduced, ordered to follow War. And we learn that Apollo considers Wonder Woman more powerful than other demigods and possibly as or more powerful than her godly siblings--all in the same two issues. And we get the reintroduction of Highfather and Orion, with news of a threat to time itself. Plus the introduction of Cassandra. Plus we see Wonder Woman airborne. All in two issues. I ask you: are these two issues decompressed? Should it really have all happened in one issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog
    We must slavishly support the writer because he has a master plan where all our questions will be answered.
    Or maybe some of us support the writer because we're enjoying what we're reading now. If his run ends and I don't know why Diana lived in London, who her old friends are or how she pays her rent, I will still have enjoyed the run (or at least the first 14 issues).
    Last edited by slvn; 11-26-2012 at 03:14 PM.

  13. #163
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    It's moving faster now, isn't it? Not counting a two-panel teaser in #12 that only introduced the Firstborn's arm, it has taken two issues to get from introducing the Firstborn to revealing that he is the firstborn child of Zeus and Hera, fortetold to take Zeus' place, ordered killed but raised by nature, and then buried and wiped from history by Zeus and his brothers. And in the same two issues that give us the Firstborn's origins, we also get the origin and introduction of Siracca, as well as Wonder Woman's embrace of Siracca as a sister. AND we see War having a falling out with his siblings and Dionysus, almost as soon as he is introduced, ordered to follow War. And we learn that Apollo considers Wonder Woman more powerful than other demigods and possibly as or more powerful than her godly siblings--all in the same two issues. And we get the reintroduction of Highfather and Orion, with news of a threat to time itself. Plus the introduction of Cassandra. Plus we see Wonder Woman airborne. All in two issues. I ask you: are these two issues decompressed? Should it really have all happened in one issue?



    Or maybe some of us support the writer because we're enjoying what we're reading now. If his run ends and I don't know why Diana lived in London, who her old friends are or how she pays her rent, I will still have enjoyed the run (or at least the first 14 issues).
    I think part of what is contributing to this situation is that there has been no break in the story. It's been from scene to scene non-stop since issue one. With the exception of time-perception in Hades (where Zola's baby accelerated 9 months hades-time) the story appears to be less than a week or two since issue 1.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Olivera View Post
    I think part of what is contributing to this situation is that there has been no break in the story. It's been from scene to scene non-stop since issue one. With the exception of time-perception in Hades (where Zola's baby accelerated 9 months hades-time) the story appears to be less than a week or two since issue 1.
    I kind of like the intensity that comes with the tight time frame. I wonder, though, how much time is supposed to pass between 12 and 13. When we join her in 13, Diana is checking with Lennox, asking how he is and how Zola is--as if she has been out for awhile. There could be some time in there for her to have hung out with the JL, I guess.

    Everything does all tie into the story somehow--to me, this makes the run focused and is a strength, but, different strikes. At the same time, and issue like the infamous #7, though framed within the larger story, was largely a digression to provide background; so were issues 2 to 4.

    I do get that the first year was a little decompressed (even though, as you point out, the timeframe was actually hypercompressed). But again, I think it would be really hard to say that the last two issues were decompressed.

  15. #165
    Ghostly Roboto Ebon Phantom's Avatar
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    Got to say I really enjoyed Siracca's flashback and sisterly resolution. The First Born's history as also interesting, especially with what happen to Hera paralleling the Amazons. Alright art. Can't wait to see what comes from the New Gods.

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