Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 130
  1. #16
    Needs more lesbian RandomFalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,324

    Default

    Oh Brett, you do make me laugh. it is, to be fair, a very awkwardly posed scene. And it only gets more awkward looking when they start floating... I kinda feel like it would have worked better if they'd been standing.

    I feel a bit like Johns gets the basics if WW character but has a lot of trouble getting it down on page. There's been some good moments: wanting to help Cheetah, comforting Cyborg, her little speech to Darkseid about too many people thinking the world is there's etc... But I think he has trouble reconciling this more caring, compassionate side of her to her more warrior-ish side. He drops these little moments of her more caring nature but they're crushed under the fact that he's got her talking about how she cuts peoples heads off and had her try to kill Green Lantern (and you will never be able to convince me that she wasn't trying to kill him). Her freak out over Steve was hugely out of character. If it had stopped at her thumping Green Lantern and perhaps some heated words then I would have been fine with it. That would have been okay. But having her go after him, and having her try to hurt him, that's just not Wonder Woman.

    It's not as though when Zola was taken Diana punched Hermes in the head and then snapped Lennox over her knee. Or when Lennox was gravely injured by Artemis she didn't beat Hermes senseless and proceed to destroy the surrounding town. Of course she didn't. She's Wonder Woman. She has better sense than that and more control. She calmly got her shit together and did what needed to be done to save Zola (both times). She choose to leave Lennox behind, which must have been a hard thing to do since he might have needed her help as well. She made adult decisions like an adult, and like the superhero I know she is.

    The closest in Azz's run to a Steve-in-trouble style freak out was in issue #7 when she tried to liberate the slaves and threw Hephaestus through a wall. And even that was minor in comparison. She didn't beat him his hammer. She didn't whip him through the workshop with the lasso. She was angry, she reacted, and then she was sorry and had a little cry. This was also the result of a lot of emotional crap building up for her (mother just died, people turned to snakes, Zola been taken and then some dude tells her that her family are douche bags) so it reads a bit more realistically. Especially since there is no bloodshed. At least to me it does.

    I think Azz has a better grasp on Diana's character, and is better at balancing all of her different, and often contradictory*, characteristics. His Diana is more likely to choose to not fight than she is to engage in combat, she doesn't fight Poseidon, she doesn't fight Hades; whereas Johns' Diana's first answer to any problem seems to be to hit it. I'm a little surprised that rather than walking away form Superman she didn't punch the poor dude in the nuts.

    I'm not too sure if the disconnect is a problem though. This is, unfortunately, par the course for Wonder Woman. Writers struggle with her. I'm honestly at this point more baffled by the massively different voice used for Diana in Batwoman than in JL. I found her sudden formal speech patterns and the way she waxed lyrical about fighting and slaying beasties to be really off putting. It really didn't fit in with Azz's much younger tone of voice that he's been using, whereas I would say that Johns' does, though it reads like it was written by a fifteen year old on their lunch break.

    *I always find this to be an odd criticism of the character, that she's contradictory in her character. Aren't we all? Isn't that what makes us interesting? I feel like it's an excuse used by people too lazy to enjoy a complex character, or worse by writers who are blatantly admitting that they are not good enough to handle a complex character.

  2. #17
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Right behind you
    Posts
    6,572

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls View Post
    I think Azz has a better grasp on Diana's character, and is better at balancing all of her different, and often contradictory*, characteristics. His Diana is more likely to choose to not fight than she is to engage in combat, she doesn't fight Poseidon, she doesn't fight Hades; whereas Johns' Diana's first answer to any problem seems to be to hit it. I'm a little surprised that rather than walking away form Superman she didn't punch the poor dude in the nuts.
    While it would have been epic, DC's own edition of one Greek-inspired character putting it to the 'superman':


    I think Johns has fallen into the usual pit of just writing Diana as the 'Action Girl' on the team...which means she has to swoon and become all emotional at the wrong times. :S

  3. #18
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Belgium.
    Posts
    31,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hypotherion View Post
    To be fair Johns has a lot less room for characterization given that he's writing a team book...
    To be fair, Johns has given lots of characterisation to Diana in the JL book, it's just characterisation that is completely at odds with how she is in her own book.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls
    Oh Brett, you do make me laugh. it is, to be fair, a very awkwardly posed scene. And it only gets more awkward looking when they start floating... I kinda feel like it would have worked better if they'd been standing.
    Of course they're posed awkwardly. They're drawn by Jim Lee, most overrated penciller on the planet.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  4. #19
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Beyond the Dune Sea.
    Posts
    11,590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls View Post
    Oh Brett, you do make me laugh. it is, to be fair, a very awkwardly posed scene. And it only gets more awkward looking when they start floating... I kinda feel like it would have worked better if they'd been standing.

    I feel a bit like Johns gets the basics if WW character but has a lot of trouble getting it down on page. There's been some good moments: wanting to help Cheetah, comforting Cyborg, her little speech to Darkseid about too many people thinking the world is there's etc... But I think he has trouble reconciling this more caring, compassionate side of her to her more warrior-ish side. He drops these little moments of her more caring nature but they're crushed under the fact that he's got her talking about how she cuts peoples heads off and had her try to kill Green Lantern (and you will never be able to convince me that she wasn't trying to kill him). Her freak out over Steve was hugely out of character. If it had stopped at her thumping Green Lantern and perhaps some heated words then I would have been fine with it. That would have been okay. But having her go after him, and having her try to hurt him, that's just not Wonder Woman.
    Thanks man.

    And hey, preaching to the choir about JL Wonder Woman's lack-of-control issues. I agree with you, she was out for blood. I can only assume this was Johns way of showing how important Steve was to her. "See, she is willing to gut Green Lantern like fish to get to Steve."

    Which is kinda weird because Clark then doesnt think twice of having her poised on his lap while he tongue wrestles with her. Seems to me there is an elephant in that room that you dont need x-ray vision to spot. "Two hours ago you were willing to kill anyone who got your way of saving his guy, but now you've dumped him and you're kissing me."

    Higher faculties not powered by Earth's yellow sun, Smallville?

    Actually that is not entirely fair. I have had my turn of being young and stupid. The advantage now is I can look at scenes like that and think "Yep, that young and stupid."

    But back to Diana, one thing I would have to say about Azzarello's Diana is - she does not come across as young and stupid.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  5. #20
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Belgium.
    Posts
    31,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    And hey, preaching to the choir about JL Wonder Woman's lack-of-control issues. I agree with you, she was out for blood. I can only assume this was Johns way of showing how important Steve was to her. "See, she is willing to gut Green Lantern like fish to get to Steve."
    I don't think it's that unreasonable for any character to want to gut that particular version of Hal Jordan for any reason...
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  6. #21
    Insanity is colorblind Mecegirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    3,140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    This is not a new thing. Diana has always been different in her own book than in the Justice League. As to why people are taking issue with this now is beyond me.

    People are going on and on like they're reinventing the wheel here. Diana playing among her gods in her own book while more straight up super hero fare is being presented in the Justice League book. This is how it's been for at least the past 40 years, even more so with Perez' relaunch after Crisis.
    Naw...I think for a while there was the expectation that DC would have all of their ducks in a row...This was a reboot/relaunch. It was a great opportunity to not make the same mistakes as the past. Instead they have made those mistakes and more besides.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Zagreus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,082

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Thanks man.

    And hey, preaching to the choir about JL Wonder Woman's lack-of-control issues. I agree with you, she was out for blood. I can only assume this was Johns way of showing how important Steve was to her. "See, she is willing to gut Green Lantern like fish to get to Steve."

    Which is kinda weird because Clark then doesnt think twice of having her poised on his lap while he tongue wrestles with her. Seems to me there is an elephant in that room that you dont need x-ray vision to spot. "Two hours ago you were willing to kill anyone who got your way of saving his guy, but now you've dumped him and you're kissing me."

    Higher faculties not powered by Earth's yellow sun, Smallville?

    Actually that is not entirely fair. I have had my turn of being young and stupid. The advantage now is I can look at scenes like that and think "Yep, that young and stupid."

    But back to Diana, one thing I would have to say about Azzarello's Diana is - she does not come across as young and stupid.
    To be fair, almost everyone in Johns JL, with maybe the exception of Batman, comes across as young and stupid. Which is a shame. (And which is why I dropped that title like a hot potato!)

  8. #23
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Southern New Jersey
    Posts
    3,369

    Default

    I was actually fine with the 'young and stupid' in the beginning since this was supposed to be a group of younger heroes new at the whole team/hero thing.

    But it's continued (granted, to a lesser degree) even after jumping forward to the present. And where I don't mind Diana *hitting* Hal (he did physically restrain her, she did ask him to let her go), I find the use of a lethal weapon inexcusable no matter how upset she is.

  9. #24
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,106

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessAmethyst View Post
    Why are Brian Azzerello and Geoff Johns WW so Differnt
    I figure they would be more in sync but they arent
    Simple answer: the power is in the hands of writers instead of editors now.
    ~ One thousand apologies if I'm using broken English. ~

  10. #25
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Belgium.
    Posts
    31,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    Simple answer: the power is in the hands of writers instead of editors now.
    Oddly enough, the version most unlike Wonder Woman is not just written by a powerful writer. She's written by DC's Chief Creative Officer and drawn by DC's co-publisher.
    Publishers have always trumped mere editors or god forbid, writers.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  11. #26
    Insanity is colorblind Mecegirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    3,140

    Default

    It's been said before but the Diana/Hal fight would have made more sense if it wasn't "five years later". Stressed out or not there is no way they hadn't exchanged blows before that point. And to have both parties behave like they don't know each other after five years? How do you spend five years with Wonder Woman and not know that it's NOT okay to just restrain her? It's one thing to not know your coworker well after 5 years behind a cubical, ts another when you are out in the field. I'd doubt that firefighters or policemen are that detached. They were all behaving like this was still year one.

  12. #27
    Hey, Larry! Darrell D.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    11,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    Simple answer: the power is in the hands of writers instead of editors now.
    As well it should be.
    Let the writers tell their stories, let the continuity cops go kick rocks.

  13. #28
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    466

    Default

    It's odd, because way back at the start of the new 52, Johns was talking about a second arc where in the missing five years the team had added at least half a dozen more guys, and would end up facing the Society of Super Villains, but that somehow became "The second arc is about how the league hasn't let anyone else join and none of them like each other and they're all useless and stupid." (Well, I think his exact words were actually something like "The team has to face the fact they're not the team the public thinks they are, and try to become that.", but that's what he meant)

    I don't know if someone told him to change that because someone from market research pulled out a chart showing that people will buy more lunchboxes if the team stays as the seven from the first arc, or Johns suddenly had a brainwave halfway through his froot loops and decided to abandon everything he'd originally planned.

  14. #29
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Southern New Jersey
    Posts
    3,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell D. View Post
    As well it should be.
    Let the writers tell their stories, let the continuity cops go kick rocks.
    I strongly disagree.

    The problem, imo, is that the pendulum keeps swinging to extremes.

    A huge issue with some writers, especially in the pre-DCnu, is that their storylines and such were dictated by editorial. 'You can't use that character,' 'You can't use that plot', 'You have to stretch that three issue plot into six issues' etc.

    The opposite end of the spectrum is that other writers are given total free rein, and so we get wildly different interpretations of the same characters in the same universe (WW related example - Cheetah gives Wonder Woman and Superman a hard time in her own book but is manhandled by Catwoman in her own book)

    The editor's job should be to provide *some* continuity without strangling creativity or without letting writers run loose. IMO the minute that Catwoman outline went to the editor, the editor should have vetoed it and explained that Cheetah is out of Catwoman's league. Creative ways to take Cheetah down? Okay. Catwoman beats her in a one-on-one melee fight? No.

    Just my .02

  15. #30
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Right behind you
    Posts
    6,572

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    Simple answer: the power is in the hands of writers instead of editors now.
    Would it really change anything if the power had been in the hands of DC notoriously fractured editors?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •