The Amazing Spider-man #698 Spoiler thread (SPOILERS: YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!)

[ShaggyB]

Ok guys, now that Ive gotten your attention: We don't allow spoilers until the day of at 10AM EST.

According to Dan this one is gonna be big and this is the thread for it. It will be opened at 10am Wednesday morning. Due to the net starting to have leaks and what not, I'm going to go ahead and create the thread for it. No one should feel the need to try to make one early as it will just be merged with this one.

Now sit back, relax and don't ruin the surprise for anyone if you have seen a spoiler. And don't forget to check back here Wednesday morning to discuss it.

One last time: NO SPOILERS OF ANY KIND ARE ALLOWED UNTIL 10AM EST 11-21-2012.

[ShaggyB]

Ok, time for some prep work.

When this thread goes live tomorrow, we've been told that the issue in question will "break the internet", cause fans 'to ball up the comic' and will have chased Dan Slott "into hiding". That all being said, we have rules here on the spider-man board.

Here is link for you to peruse:
http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ted-01-17-2011

Lets start with:
Be Polite. This is everyone's official warning. It doesn't matter how mad you are, you need to be civil. This includes threats against each other and Marvel. (Threats will net you a ban instantly) I realize some of you are going to be angry, take the time now (especially if you've already spoiled the book for yourself) to come up with civil ways to express your opinion.

Profanity. PG-13. If you cant make your points without using cussing, do yourself a favor and just refrain from posting.

Off forum disputes. Some of you may have found an outlet to discuss this issue already, don't bring your fights with others here. Consider this a fresh start.

Respect the law. We've covered threats already so that one is easy, but so is the rest of this. Lets not post the scans of this book that have been circulating the web. We don't need to see every page posted here to discuss the contents within. You have your copy, describe what you see.

All right, that should about cover it.

[ShaggyB]

Ok so the big drop is

spoilers:

that Doc Ock has switched minds with Peter. He reveals that he is now peter parker and that peter gets to live out the short time he has left in ocks dying body. Doc flat lines and Spider-man leaves.

end of spoilers

ok so thats the big deal, now its important to remember that this is part 1 of the three part setup up to superior spider-man #1. If you think the story is ending now with one more regular sized issue and one oversized left to go.....

[Dangerous]

SPOILERS-

The Raft- a swat team is called into Doc Ock’s room where he is on his death bed after he began murmuring something. The doctor present wants to be on the safe side after him almost wiping out mankind during EOTE even in his weakened state. A swat guy then leans in to hear what he’s saying- (the clues on the cover).

In Manhattan Spidey is all happy swinging through the city like it’s an episode of Spidey 5000 when he spots ‘The Destructor’ pulling a robbery. One punch later he’s being shipped into the back of an ambulance as an NYDP officer explains to Spidey that crims often dress as super-villains these days as this grants them a more lenient sentence than armed robbery.

Swinging over to his pad Peter checks his messages and reflects how he needs to get his life in order, including his relationship with MJ. At Horizon Peter has an appraisal/meeting with Max about where is upto. Max wants to know if Pete is going to be delivering some new inventions anytime soon and Pete promises his new ideas will blow his old stuff out the water.

Later at MJ’s club, Peter strides in suited and booted and announces to Miss Watson that he wants to get back together with her. She sorta brushes it off and notes they need to get to the hospital to check on May’s physiotherapy progress. At the hospital Pete’s Avenger’s card starts buzzing and he explains he has to take off.

At the raft Captain America is there with Haweye, Wolvie, Spider-Woman…and maybe someone else as he tells Spidey Ock is on his death bed and has been asking for Peter Parker. Inside Peter says he wants to talk to Doc on his own without cameras (bad idea)…. as he walks into Ock’s room alone. Inside Ock croaks out ‘peter …. parker’. ‘Yes, I am Peter Parker’ Says Spidey, removing his mask for Otto.

Then Spidey? says- ‘No I am Peter Parker’ and explains how Octavius has switched bodies with Peter. Peter now inhabits Ock’s broken and dying body and Ock inhabits the body of Spider-Man with all of his knowledge and memories. Gloating Ock announces how Spidey will now die never knowing how he performed his greatest trick. Ock’s body containing Peter Parker’s soul then goes into cardiac arrest and he dies as Ock strides off in Peter’s body!!!



Thoughts-

Well I gotta hand it to Dan Slott this has never been done before and it is a hell of a cliff hanger! My only real gripe is Peter suddenly deciding he wants to get back with MJ out of nowhere, seemed pretty contrived, not only that, but that a gal like MJ would be single.

I dunno maybe she never dated anyone seriously after Pete, I guess that’s plausible. I can see why Doc Ock being Spidey for issue 700 will piss people off, and I gotta say hats off to the guy on here who totally figured it out. I hope we learn the fate of Peter’s soul/consciousness before 700! Anyway I’m hooked, what an issue!

[Stars 'N Stripes]

spoilers:

Oh my. My oh my. Just. Good gawd almighty.

end of spoilers

[Ravin' Ray]

SPOILERS

So, after the brouhaha of leaked spoilers, anger, shock, and disbelief, not to mention blame to pass around, we've come to this spoiler and discussion of Amazing Spider-Man #698 for the CBR Forums. Before we proceed, however…

To the American Spider-fans, I hope you all have a safe Thanksgiving travel today. I know I experienced it going back to Los Angeles from San Diego on our 2002 vacation. Now, will you actually have something to be thankful for by way of Slott's story? After reading it, will you still be able to observe the holiday as before? Or will it be bad enough to totally ruin the spirit of the day, and not just break the Internet in half.

Second, if you're one of those who deliberately viewed the revelation page without reading first the lead-up, well, you're missing out on a lot. Sure, now you know what happened, but the set-up for that scene only makes it that much more powerful, and rivetting, you'll be forced to go back and re-read the whole comic. And look for clues. I did.

spoilers:

At the Raft, security responds to an alarm at the cell block holding Smythe, Morbius, Connor, and Octavius. Ock's docs sounded it off because he started mumbling after weeks of silece. The squad leader leans in close enough to hear him say "Peter Parker". Climbing up the pier overviewing the Raft, the golden octobot repeats the name. We are treated to Peter as Spidey revelling in the day that he feels will be the best one. We read his inner monologue, saying he should enjoy being Spidey as he's earned it, with all of NY to play in. A small-time robbery interrupts his reverie and he quickly dispatches the two-bit baddie with uncharacteristic lack of snappy patter. He even takes off and ignores the policewoman's request that he stop by the station to fill out whatever needed to be filled out. Back at his apartment he takes stock of his good fortune: a pad in a swanky NY neighborhood, his handsome face (slightly marred by the hobgblin war), and play his messages. Three catch his attention: 1. MJ asking him to visit her club (Pete wishing they'd be together); 2. Jay reminding him of his hospital visit promise (calling his aunt a sweet dear); 3. Max notifying him of his due evalutation at Horizon (grateful for his job). Pete casually and confidently tells Max he'll surpass himself and go beyond his previous inventions. In his lab he remembers how he first invented his web-fluid, but he also vows never to let time and opportunity pass him by, so he'll become a better scientist… and a better man. Dressed to a T after work, he visits MJ and tells her he wants them to take things to the next level, much to her surprise. But she tells him her promise to see May and Jay and invites him to join her. As she gets her coat, he unexpectedly flirts by winking at two of the female customers. At May's physio rehab, a grateful Jay beams at Pete's and MJ's presence, when Pete gets an Avengers alert to go to the Raft. Jay takes umbrage at his sudden departure despite MJ covering for him and May overlooking it over her thrill at seeing Pete and MJ closer again and possibly giving her grandkids. Spidey still a bit disbelieving about his being an Avenger, and when he reaches the Raft Cap (with Wolverine, Hakweye, and Spider-Woman alongside) tells him Ock's asking for him. And not Spider-Man. Peter Parker. Requesting privacy, he faces Ock in his cell.

end of spoilers
And this is where we have the scene that caused and continues to cause an uproar on the Net. Let me advice you, when you read it again, go through each and every phrase and word carefully. Now, how do you read it?
spoilers:

Spidey asks Ock what he wants to tell him and he replied "Peter Parker". Spidey unmasks, "Yes, I'm Peter Parker," but Ock protests no it's him (Ock). And, sending chills down my spine as I read in horror, Peter calls Ock as Spider-Man and tells him that the mind in Peter's body now has everything of Peter's life including his memories; while the mind in Ock's body now has to accept his identity and body as Otto Octavius, with time running out in his battered body. He gloats that he will not reveal how he pulled it off. Let's go through what just happened. Octavius' mind is now, apparently, in Parker's body and also copied his memories. Parker's mind is now in Octavius' body, which suddenly goes into cardiac arrest. The doctors rush in to rescuscitate him as Spidey returns to his teammates. He tells Cap Ock probably couldn't handle Spidey sending him off and reassures him it doesn't bother him. In fact, in the last panel, he says he better things to do. And behind Spider-Man, the background is a watermarked Doctor Octopus.

end of spoilers

My reaction was just visceral: I cupped my hands to my mouth going "Oh My God. He (Slott) didn't do it." But he did. And I was absolutely stunned. And horrified.

Yes. Horrified.

I think the last time I had this kind of reaction was almost two years ago when Johnny Storm (disconcertingly Peter Parker's best superhero friend) died in Fantastic Four #587, a similarly hyped, anticipated, and hyped issue. Back then what added to the horror for me was the way Johnny appeared to die; it seemed out-there inhumane and undignified being dog-piled by insectoid aliens with the body being violated. Here, the difference is

spoilers:

it's the mind that is seemingly violated as Peter's is now in the dying body of his enemy. The indignity shocked my sensibilities. He did not deserve it.

end of spoilers
I re-read the book, looking for when and how exactly "it" happened. That was when it hit me:
spoilers:

Ock's been in Peter's body and posing as Spider-Man the entire issue, from the panel where he's swinging through. That inner monologue, that was Ock's. And all of a sudden it made sense. Ock was experiecing for the first time what it was like to be in a young, strong, handsome body able to do all the stuff Spidey did. His petulance towards the policewoman. Calling May a dear sweet woman (hearkening to their almost wedding). Flirting with the gals at MJ's club. The switch happened off-panel, probably just before the alarm sounded off in the Raft. And the golden octobot? Did it just finish its mission of doing the mind-switch. The revelation shook me up. Slott got us from page 1. I knew from all the feel-good vibes of the earlier pages that something terrible was going to upend it all, as a plot device, but I didn't expect this. Now after more than 24 hours reading it, I'm still trying to hold out hope. And what I've come up was this. Read that scene again. Especially this line, verbatim. Spider-Man's body: "And like a good magician, I shall not reveal my secrets. You will die, never knowing how I performed my greatest trick." When I read that again, I thought of another interpretation: Ock did NOT switch minds with Peter; but rather, he imprinted his memories on Peter's mind like how Doctor Doom imprinted Krsitoff Vernard with his memories to make him think he is Doom. So Peter's mind is still in his rightful body, but with Ock's mind overlain as well. I took note of the fact that Ock referred to himself as a magician pulling a trick, and like stage magicians the trick is only an illusion, much like Eastern Europe including Symkaria burning in Ends of the Earth was his illusion. But then I wondered what Ock would get out of Peter becoming him when his real mind would still be in his own body, but somehow imprinted with Peter's memories to make it seem he's Peter to complete the illusion. So if indeed it was a true mind switch, then we have to go find out what tech it was that Ock used to pull it off. Because as far as I know, he doesn't appear to have that kind of technology himself. So did he filch such tech from Richards, Stark, or Pym?

end of spoilers
Give Slott credit for the audacity to pull off what he did. And if this is any indication, we'll be hunting our back issues for clues.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

And you must read the issue with this song playing. It makes it EPIC!

[Shade 20x6]

The knee-jerk reactions are going to be abundant, but yeah, there's still a lot left to this story. And even though spoilers:

Ock

end of spoilers fits the criteria that's been floated out there for the SSM, there's still a chance it's not him.

Also, props to the poster(s) who called this weeks ago.

[graffiX]

I loved this issue.

Bravo.

[oldforce]

Um. It's pretty bad. Well, I gave it a try.

[Doctor Cosmic]

Ok so the big drop is

spoilers:

that Doc Ock has switched minds with Peter. He reveals that he is now peter parker and that peter gets to live out the short time he has left in ocks dying body. Doc flat lines and Spider-man leaves.

end of spoilers

ok so thats the big deal, now its important to remember that this is part 1 of the three part setup up to superior spider-man #1. If you think the story is ending now with one more regular sized issue and one oversized left to go.....

You make an excellent point: this isn't the whole story.

That said, I don't see how this issue is worthy of the hyperbolic description "breaking the Internet." This is old hat, really. The villain switching bodies with the hero, etc.

Hopefully, there's something FAR bigger than this in ASM #700.

Honestly, I don't see what can be done with this that would be "earth shattering." If Octavius remains in Peter's body and Peter is "dead," we all know that won't last forever.

If Peter gets back into his body somehow, but Otto is trapped in there with him, also not that big of a deal. In fact, it's never happened to Spider-Man before, but we've seen Peter at war with himself or an entity (Alien Costume, The Spider) before.

Slott better have something truly massive in these last two issues, or he'll be considered one of the biggest liars in comic book promotion in recent memory.

[lazyav4]

This issue made me appreciate what Ends of the Earth was really about.

[Shade 20x6]

Actually, this premise was already explored to an extent in Ultimate Spider-Man, so it isn't really something that "has never been done before," even with a Spider-Man.

[Shade 20x6]

I think a lot of people are going to be rushing back to figure out when spoilers:

the switch

end of spoilers happened, but I think it's as simple as "just before this issue." There is clearly a time gap between 697 and 698.

[USERNAME TAKEN]

You make an excellent point: this isn't the whole story.

That said, I don't see how this issue is worthy of the hyperbolic description "breaking the Internet." This is old hat, really. The villain switching bodies with the hero, etc.

Hopefully, there's something FAR bigger than this in ASM #700.

Honestly, I don't see what can be done with this that would be "earth shattering." If Octavius remains in Peter's body and Peter is "dead," we all know that won't last forever.

If Peter gets back into his body somehow, but Otto is trapped in there with him, also not that big of a deal. In fact, it's never happened to Spider-Man before, but we've seen Peter at war with himself or an entity (Alien Costume, The Spider) before.

Slott better have something truly massive in these last two issues, or he'll be considered one of the biggest liars in comic book promotion in recent memory.

I dunno, I think it's a pretty big deal.

It's not just that Otto has taken over Peter's body, he has all his memories and knows everything he knows.

Technically, its a composite Parker/Octavius that's Spider-man at the moment with the Octavius personality in charge.

I'm very, very curious to see where this goes next.