Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32
  1. #16
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4,254

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    With the original Siegel/Shuster character, Superman was the true personality, and Clark Kent -- although the name he was raised with -- was a disguise.
    hmm...you should take another look at Action Comics issue 1 - there, it says:

    'Early, Clark decided he must turn his titanic strength into channels that would benefit mankind - and so was created...Superman'.

    If, however, you're suggesting there was a 'transposition' when that decision was made, then I'd probably agree with you

  2. #17
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,098

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    hmm...you should take another look at Action Comics issue 1 - there, it says:

    'Early, Clark decided he must turn his titanic strength into channels that would benefit mankind - and so was created...Superman'.

    If, however, you're suggesting there was a 'transposition' when that decision was made, then I'd probably agree with you
    Honestly, I just don't think Siegel and Shuster went as far as rationnalizing this issue. Clearly, the cowardly meek Clark Kent who was hiding his face behind glasses was not his real personnality, but that's it.
    I just think it's the kind of question that should not be answered. In fact, I think the passage in AC where, when asked about it, Clark just says "how about we talk about something else?" is the most clever way of dealing with this.
    However, if I had to choose, I'd say Superman. Because Superman is what happens when you take a last of his kind alien (Kal El), and raise him as a human being (Clark). He's not just a normal Kansas Farmboy: his powers, his perception of the world induced by his supersenses, hell, probably certain natural inclinasions specific of his species make him too different for this. But he's not a Kryptonian either: his culture, his upbringing, his friends.....all of this are human by nature. he is nature AND nurture put not one again another, but together. He's not human, he's not alien, he's superhuman. Y'know.....Superman.

  3. #18
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    88

    Default

    I like how they're doing it in the New 52, where both are real to some extent.

  4. #19
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4,254

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    He's not human, he's not alien, he's superhuman. Y'know.....Superman.
    Where's the 'like' option?

  5. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    When it comes to Nature vs Nuture, I believe how you're raised has more impact than genetics when it comes to personality.
    This is not a matter of believe. It has been proven many times that nuture is more important when it comes to personality.

  6. #21
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Legendary Fortress Of Solitude, The Strangest Place On Earth
    Posts
    5,786

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Well that kind of depends. Yes his name is Kal-El, but he was raised a Clark Kent. So to me while they are both sides of the same coin, Clark I belive is more the actual person and Superman is just sort of the "Heroic" image that he feels he needs to present.
    I understand, and it is a valid point, but I see it as him having this underlying layer that supports the rest.
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye Leůn (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

  7. #22
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,098

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Cleaf View Post
    This is not a matter of believe. It has been proven many times that nuture is more important when it comes to personality.
    Even when it comes to someone who is basically from a different species than us?
    Crocodiles don't make good pets just because you raise them as cats.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  8. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Even when it comes to someone who is basically from a different species than us?
    Crocodiles don't make good pets just because you raise them as cats.
    Fictional aliens that are full characters as opposed to something lurking in the shadows are, at most, humans with an exaggerated trait. Clark is a human with special abilities, it's a natural consequence of having human creators.

  9. #24
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,098

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    Fictional aliens that are full characters as opposed to something lurking in the shadows are, at most, humans with an exaggerated trait. Clark is a human with special abilities, it's a natural consequence of having human creators.
    Superman is as human as his writers "allow" him to be.
    There have been fictionnal aliens with non human traits (or at least, that were supposed to have non human traits) just like you had fictionnal aliens with human traits.
    Just like Superman's heroism has been explained as coming from his Kryptonian heritage or from his Earth upbringing.
    There is no "rule" about neither Superman nor fictionnal aliens in this matter.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  10. #25
    The Dark Knight Returns DonC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    The Cleve
    Posts
    13,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengingJustice View Post
    Here's a question that I've been thinking a lot for a while and I was hoping you guys could give your thoughts on: Is Clark Kent the cover-up for Superman or is Superman the cover-up for Clark Kent?

    What do you think?
    Free your soul and let it fly....

  11. #26
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,663

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    hmm...you should take another look at Action Comics issue 1 - there, it says:

    'Early, Clark decided he must turn his titanic strength into channels that would benefit mankind - and so was created...Superman'.

    If, however, you're suggesting there was a 'transposition' when that decision was made, then I'd probably agree with you
    I mean the personality he displayed as Superman in those early Action issues was his true one. They make that extremely clear within the stories and dialogue. Whatever the name he was raised with, from the moment he joined the Star, the Clark he presented the world was an act, and being Superman allowed him to be completely himself, acting and speaking as he naturally would have.
    Last edited by stk; 11-23-2012 at 02:31 PM.

  12. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Even when it comes to someone who is basically from a different species than us?
    Crocodiles don't make good pets just because you raise them as cats.
    Well, does it matter? In general, I don't see Superman as a character based on the "nurture versus nature" debate, it's more like about overlooked qualities and the true self.

    Does he feel Kryptonian? Terran? Doesn't really matter in this debate. Fact is: The basic Superman concept was that a mild-mannered reporter was an in fact someone entirely else.

    I was just talking about that the idea that a Kryptonian being raised as an Earthman doesn't necessarily have to be like one when all is sad is done. Perfectly valid, even from a more "realistic" point of view.
    Last edited by Van Cleaf; 11-23-2012 at 05:00 PM.

  13. #28
    Senior Member J. Robb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Oil Country
    Posts
    4,847

    Default

    Superman is Clark Kent, Clark Kent is Superman. They're one person.

    His secret identity gets the disguise out of necessity, Superman wearing a disguise would raise suspicion about his character (as opposed to someone like Batman, who wants to seem mysterious.)

  14. #29
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    30,872

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Unless he thinks of himself as Kal. And this "slightly cold" BS comes from your post-Crisis bias.
    Sorry: I'm a child of the 80s and 90s. Must you call my childhood BS? Next you'll call my Atari 2600 games crappy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Cleaf View Post
    You could also say it's illogical to assume that someone as powerful as Superman can really be normal.
    ...Lex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Even when it comes to someone who is basically from a different species than us?
    Crocodiles don't make good pets just because you raise them as cats.
    *covers his cats ear holes* Don't listen to him, Bitey!
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  15. #30
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,663

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    Sorry: I'm a child of the 80s and 90s. Must you call my childhood BS? Next you'll call my Atari 2600 games crappy...
    What?! Atari is pre-Crisis.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •