Nightwing #14 Preview/Discussion

[JasonTodd428]

Yeah. I'm just marking time until Issue 15 on this one. This arc is not very interesting to me either though not because of Shiva or her new connection to Dick as opposed to Tim. I'm not really enjoying Defalco here so the previous issue was merely okay and I don't expect this issue to be much above that. To be honest I didn't even look at the preview here since I've pretty much stopped looking at previews anyway.

[Godlike13]

Do u know who would have been better than Shiva for the whole hired female assassin comes to Gotham bit, Lady Vic. While most of Nightwing old baddies kind of sucked, i always thought she had potential. Oh well. Who knows, maybe they're saving her for another time.

[JasonTodd428]

Do u know who would have been better than Shiva for the whole hired female assassin comes to Gotham bit, Lady Vic. While most of Nightwing old baddies kind of sucked, i always thought she had potential. Oh well. Who knows, maybe they're saving her for another time.

Now that would have been interesting.

[RichSummers]

I read issue 01 of this title and didn't mind it... are the following issues (2 - current) worth picking up?

The first arc isn't bad by any stretch, although one of the issues is a complete waste (I think it's 5, maybe 6). The night of the owls tie ins are fantastic though and made me hate the overall story from Batman a lot less. I really though they did a great job showing you who Dick is and what makes him a different from Bruce. Since then, the title's been average so we'll see what DOTF brings.

[DarkKnghtJared]

Im trying to not be too critical, but with lines like Dick talking about how he doesn't think he nor his equipment is ever effective enough, or how Batman would have given him a heads up on his business dealings, DeFalco is not making it very easy. Higgins can get kind of bland at times, but at least he knows the character. After reading lines like those, i can't say that about DeFalco here. There just a kind of frustrating lack of confidence and a bit too much dependence on Batman in DeFalco's Nightwing that i just can't help but struggle with.

The dialogue's a bit bland, sure, but I don't see any real "dependence" on Batman, and I think the villain/situation of DeFalco's arc seems far more interesting than both of Higgin's villains combined, and it's so far paced far better than the initial arc which was really just a really long and drawn-out prologue to Night of the Owls.

You know what I would like? If the two co-wrote the book. Nightwing #0 was probably the best issue of the book yet, we'd get a bit more of a modern dialogue style with a peppier pace, and Higgins would have someone to smack him up-side the head the next time he has a bright idea like "Grey Son."

[Godlike13]

He just brushes off something because Batman knows. So if something was up, Batman would have told him. Thats "dependence" on Batman. And in the last issue it was, i gotta check in with Batman, i wonder if it was like this for Batman, Batman would understand, ect. Look i don't mind him mentioning Batman, he is a Bat character, but come on. And i don't mind Shiva, but this seems like old times. Them just using Nighwing to show off Shiva. With him being there to gaze at her awesomeness and talk about his ineffectiveness in the mean time.

Honestly ill be glad when Higgins comes back, ya so far his villains have been lacking, but at least his Nightwing sounds like Nightwing.

[Just Is]

He just brushes off something because Batman knows. So if something was up, Batman would have told him. Thats "dependence" on Batman. And in the last issue it was, i gotta check in with Batman, i wonder if it was like this for Batman, Batman would understand, ect. Look i don't mind him mentioning Batman, he is a Bat character, but come on. And i don't mind Shiva, but this seems like old times. Them just using Nighwing to show off Shiva. With him being there to gaze at her awesomeness and talk about his ineffectiveness in the mean time.

Honestly ill be glad when Higgins comes back, ya so far his villains have been lacking, but at least his Nightwing sounds like Nightwing.

This was my opinion as well. I think the comment he had Penguin make in #13 towards Nightwing about being "Batman-Lite" mixed in with this internalized second guessing/comparison to Bruce just make Nightwing seem so small time. The bigger problem comes again with Nightwing's portrayal over in Batman where he is essentially viewed as Batman's equal (both through the narrative and through Bruce himself and, more importantly he himself) ... something that doesn't come across here. This mixed with Nightwing becoming a victim of the "Worf Effect" with Shiva (based on the solicitation) (almost every main Bat-crossover had pre-Dickbats had Nightwing being taken out by a villian to show just how tough they really were (which was what made the subversion in Batman RIP so good)) highlight my biggest fears of what would happen with Dick post-Flashpoint and post-Dickbats. Its funny how it all came crashing together in the short span of this mini-arc. Its really damaging to Nightwing fundamentally.

Its weird that I'm having more and more problems with #13 and (pre-emptively for #14) then I did last month.

[Godlike13]

Its weird that I'm having more and more problems with #13 and (pre-emptively for #14) then I did last month.

LoL, me too. I think its because im thinking about it more. Last mouth i kind of just told myself i wasn't gonna be too critical, so i kind of tried to let things not bother me, but i guess i could only do that for so long. And its not just DeFalco either, i think ive lost my tolerance for the art too. If the art was better, i think id have a easier time letting some of these things go, but its not. I don't know, i guess im not going into this issue with a very good mentality. Oh well, and who knows. Maybe the full issue will surprise me.

[Whip Whirlwind]

Do u know who would have been better than Shiva for the whole hired female assassin comes to Gotham bit, Lady Vic. While most of Nightwing old baddies kind of sucked, i always thought she had potential. Oh well. Who knows, maybe they're saving her for another time.

Good idea! I remember of all of NW's old baddies her and the acrobat twins were the only ones I ever really liked. Probably because they both had decent chemistry with Nightwing.

But yeah, the old "SHIVA IS SO AWESOME OMG" shtick is really getting old. I know there is more to Shiva than her skills and condescending attitude, but I don't think we'll be seeing that under DeFalco.

And I agree with Just Is on the problems with how NW is portraying the Bruce/Dick relationship.

[Godlike13]

Good idea! I remember of all of NW's old baddies her and the acrobat twins were the only ones I ever really liked. Probably because they both had decent chemistry with Nightwing.

But yeah, the old "SHIVA IS SO AWESOME OMG" shtick is really getting old. I know there is more to Shiva than her skills and condescending attitude, but I don't think we'll be seeing that under DeFalco.

And I agree with Just Is on the problems with how NW is portraying the Bruce/Dick relationship.

Double Dare. LoL Ya, i liked them too.

[Godlike13]

Damn, do u know what, the first half of this issue was actually not bad. Over narrated, but still had its moments. But then, well wouldn't u know it, some old same old. Surprise, surprise. Just like what they would do with the last series, they do the same damn thing here that they repeatedly did then. Shiva shows up and pretty much just kicks Nightwing's ass, and to add insult to injury they have him boast about how good she is as she's kicking his ass LoL. My isn't she just so awesome *rolleyes*. Oh, and to make things even better. Penguin sure did play him like a fiddle. They really make sure to have Nightwing be the chump of this tale.

They have Shiva come off looking like the "ultimate assassin", Penguin the criminal mastermind, and Nightwing, the lead character, the chump. Gee thanks DC, thats why i read Nightwing. So i can see how awesome everyone else is. Wish i can say im surprised though. But hey, got to show off them c-listers and everyone else but Nightwing. Thats what Nightwing is there for i guess. Honestly i just don't get it, its like they want me to be sorry for being a Nightwing fan. "Oh u like Nightwing, well ha ha fool".

Im sorry. This just sucks. I was so tired of this $#!^ 10 years go. I have no more tolerances for it anymore. Its beyond maddening. But i guess the more things change, the more things stay the same.

I guess we can talk about the lead into DotF with Raya, but im so dishearten by how it played out with Shiva and Penguin im not sure i can bring myself to even care.

[Badou]

Yeah, can't say I am surprised either. Looks like we are really back to pre Dick-Bats levels for sure now. Oh well.

Wish I could say I am excited about the DotF issues, but I'm really tired of the circus setting. I'll still stick around but my expectations aren't the highest. At least Higgins will be back.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Honestly, the writing doesn't seem that bad to me. In fact, I think I like it a bit more than what Higgins has been doing on this book.

I agree that Higgins has worn out his welcome on the title, for me. Sales seem to indicate this isn't the case for others, though.

But yes, lets put Fialkov on this book and be done with it.

I don't mind DeFalco's stint. While I do agree Higgins does fine on his character work, I just couldn't stand the plot/stories of the first 2 arcs. The 2nd arc had the exact same formula as the 1st arc. Fialkov, Justin Jordan, or even bring back Josh Williamson or Nate Edmondson. I'd love to see one of them do Mr. Grayson.

[Brave Sir Robbin]

This issue was pretty weak. The plot was heavily reliant on joining together threads of other plots without a central focus. The Lady Shiva battle was also a letdown. So we get a little Amusement Mile, a little discussion with the banker, a little fighting with Lady Shiva, a little questioning about the joker, a little look at the Penguin. It just a bunch of little things jammed into the book. This should have been spaced differently had the plot pared down so the book could have more of a clear theme. This just bounced around.

[thwhtGuardian]

Not the best issue but I really enjoy reading Dick's voice, his character comes across really strong. I love the amusement mile plot I think even more than the action, the human side of Dick is just really fun to see.