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  1. #31

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    Crossover, when it serves the story, is fine, but it's hardly a necessity.

    Or would you say Marston's run got it wrong because Superman didn't make regular guest appearances?
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  2. #32
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desean101101 View Post
    Hey If Batman can have runs without him mentioning the outside DC universe so can wonder women. If its a good run and its self contained than whats the problem?
    Yeah, I mean, even Snyder's run on Batman never mention any other hero appart from his sidekicks so far and wouldn't be affected in any way even if the Bat family was the only group of heroes to have ever existed.
    I prefer to have the DCU out of the story until it becomes useful than to have random cameos of Green Lantern or Flash just because. I mean, who cares?
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I admit, one of the key things I don't like about Azz's run (and again, there are things I DO like) is the disconnect from the rest of the DCU. This is a shared universe, and the idea of Diana playing a major role in a DCU story that will have nothing to do with her own book just feels wrong to me.

    If Azzarello can't figure out a way to have other characters in the DCU appear in the book, why is he writing in a shared universe in the first place? To me, that's one of the joys of a comic universe :/
    Yet her current mythos can work with some characters. I like her current team up with Batwoman.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I admit, one of the key things I don't like about Azz's run (and again, there are things I DO like) is the disconnect from the rest of the DCU. This is a shared universe, and the idea of Diana playing a major role in a DCU story that will have nothing to do with her own book just feels wrong to me.

    If Azzarello can't figure out a way to have other characters in the DCU appear in the book, why is he writing in a shared universe in the first place? To me, that's one of the joys of a comic universe :/
    Well, he's using Orion, who is still the son of Darkseid, who has already appeared in the New 52 DCU--so it's only a couple of degrees of separation, I guess. And a solicit--for #15, I think--mentions big changes in store for the whole DCU. Plus, events or revelations from Azz's run have been mentioned in JL and Batwoman. Azz said he needed the first year to establish the character on her own terms. We may be seeing a bit more interaction with the rest of the DCU going forward.

    I'm not bothered by leaving Superman out; the events in Wonder Woman's solo book seem to be a little prior to JL, and anyway, her relation ship shouldn't define her. If Wonder Woman's timeline catches up with JL's, then I think it would be good to allude ot the relationship, but it wouldn't have to be a big deal in her own book.

  5. #35
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    - Batman has multiple books that cross over with one another (see Court of Owls and Death of the Family) whereas Wonder Woman only has the one book
    - Crossovers and events didn't exist back in Marston's day
    - I'm not saying that characters should randomly drop in but rather that, if there's a big 'event' announced by DC, I don't think Wonder Woman's book should be left out of it if Diana plays a big role in the event
    - I'm also not saying that her relationship should define her, but if DC has decided that the relationship between Diana and Kal will be this DCU wide earth-shaking thing, I do think there should at least be a mention of it somewhere in Diana's own book. I don't mean Superman should be in every issue or coming in to save the day, but even something like the two of them on a 'date' before going their own separate ways i.e. some acknowledgement that the greater DCU and major storylines exist

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    If Azzarello can't figure out a way to have other characters in the DCU appear in the book, why is he writing in a shared universe in the first place? To me, that's one of the joys of a comic universe :/
    Think the problem is that if he also had to dedicate time and space to guest characters, people here would get even more upset about Diana first having to share space with her own support cast and then some other guest. After that there will be others complaining about her not being able to handle the story in her own book and so on.

    That said, the story he is currently telling really has no reason to feature any guest stars (who's she going call anyways? Constantine?). And lets not forget Orion is showing up in a month or two.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    - Batman has multiple books that cross over with one another (see Court of Owls and Death of the Family) whereas Wonder Woman only has the one book
    But that's not the DCU, that's Batman's corner of it. You don't see Superman or Aquaman in Court of Owls, you see Nightwing or Bartgirl. Your analogy would require other books related to Wonder Woman (like an hypothetic Sensation Comics or Wonder Girl) to be part of a crossover involving Azzarello's gods. But WW just don't have the fanbase to have ten "Wonder Woman related" books thr way Batman does, so that's about it. So far, it seems to be DC's policy (until the Aquaman even and Trinity War) to have crossovers between books of the same family, like Death of the Family or H'el on Earth.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  8. #38
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Think the problem is that if he also had to dedicate time and space to guest characters, people here would get even more upset about Diana first having to share space with her own support cast and then some other guest. After that there will be others complaining about her not being able to handle the story in her own book and so on.

    That said, the story he is currently telling really has no reason to feature any guest stars (who's she going call anyways? Constantine?). And lets not forget Orion is showing up in a month or two.
    See, my problem in that regard isn't that she's 'sharing the space' but rather that the supporting cast is displacing her i.e. the supporting cast often doesn't appear with Diana but rather instead of Diana.

    Right now, I just don't feel as if the current title has any connection at all with anything else in the DCU. Orion hasn't appeared anywhere outside of WW, so that's not a connection, imo.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    See, my problem in that regard isn't that she's 'sharing the space' but rather that the supporting cast is displacing her i.e. the supporting cast often doesn't appear with Diana but rather instead of Diana.
    While I can understand that under other circumstances; in this book wouldn't everything just be much more flat and uninteresting if we did not have those small glimpses of what the gods or bad guys are doing and only saw them when they appear near Diana?

    Right now, I just don't feel as if the current title has any connection at all with anything else in the DCU. Orion hasn't appeared anywhere outside of WW, so that's not a connection, imo.
    Well what is it you want from it then?
    -Somebody else's problem suddenly becomes Diana's, like Snyder's Batman calamities are constantly breaking into half a dozen other books?
    -That her problems are suddenly too big for her alone to handle or somehow involves someone else?
    -Guest appearances?
    -Little hints that there is a larger world? (which has already been given)

    The thing is that the story that's currently being told doesn't require the rest of the DCU to get involved with it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    That is bizarre. And troubling.
    You are not the only mainstream comic fan troubled by the idea of this story not being that story. And then we have guys like Morrison leaving all this crap behind and we're surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls View Post
    Although, I think a brief mention might go a long way.
    I guess, judging by some comments, but isn't it still shoehorning if it wasn't his idea?

  11. #41
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    One of the reasons I like the Azz run so much, is the fact it stays away from the DCU. So, if more of that is on the table, I'm happy with it.

  12. #42
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    Count me against Azzarello's WW crossing over with Superman, JLA or any other aspect of the DCU. I read very few superhero titles, as I find both DC and Marvel's constant events both diaappointing and exhausting; I'm a fan of individual titles rather than superhero universes. Azzarello's take on Wonder Woman has been a breath of fresh air for me (in fact this is the first time I've ever been interested in the character) and I really don't want to have to keep up with Superman, JLA, etc. in order to enjoy this one series.

    It used to be that titles *not* constantly crossing over, or indeed even particularly acknowledging each other, was the norm in superhero comics. I really miss being able to buy only the titles I like, without ever having to care about the rest of a company's overarching universe. DC, please save the probably inevitable event-driven Wonder Woman comics for after Azzarello finishes his stories.

  13. #43
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I admit, one of the key things I don't like about Azz's run (and again, there are things I DO like) is the disconnect from the rest of the DCU. This is a shared universe, and the idea of Diana playing a major role in a DCU story that will have nothing to do with her own book just feels wrong to me.

    If Azzarello can't figure out a way to have other characters in the DCU appear in the book, why is he writing in a shared universe in the first place? To me, that's one of the joys of a comic universe :/
    NuDC seems to have lost many of the features of a shared universe, which is why I am occasionally able to read something like Sword of Sorcery or Demon Knights and enjoy it. While Azzarello is still on Wonder Woman, and while the things he has ruined about the character and her world remain canon, I will not be able to enjoy DC books; anything that reminds me that this is in fact the new continuity is triggerish. If there is a second title, I hope it has nothing to do at all with Azzarello, so that when the new writer comes and the book is rebooted again I will be able to start looking at DC again.
    Superhero comic books only become art to the extent that their banal, unrealistic fantasy and garish styles go too far and become interesting. Attempts to ground them in reality can only ruin them.

  14. #44
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melkorjunior View Post
    Count me against Azzarello's WW crossing over with Superman, JLA or any other aspect of the DCU. I read very few superhero titles, as I find both DC and Marvel's constant events both diaappointing and exhausting; I'm a fan of individual titles rather than superhero universes. Azzarello's take on Wonder Woman has been a breath of fresh air for me (in fact this is the first time I've ever been interested in the character) and I really don't want to have to keep up with Superman, JLA, etc. in order to enjoy this one series.

    It used to be that titles *not* constantly crossing over, or indeed even particularly acknowledging each other, was the norm in superhero comics. I really miss being able to buy only the titles I like, without ever having to care about the rest of a company's overarching universe. DC, please save the probably inevitable event-driven Wonder Woman comics for after Azzarello finishes his stories.
    To me, this is the Catch-22.

    There aren't good WW driven DC crossovers, so a lot of the 'oldtime' WW fans would like to see her take a more prominent role in the DCU. A crossover where Diana is front and center and saves the day (as opposed to Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, Flash, etc.) would be a welcome change.

    So now that Diana is becoming more popular, the writer doesn't want anything to do with such things.

    And again, I don't think a few panels of Superman would kill him. A simple scene where they're spending down-time together and then they both get called off to their respective stories would at least acknowledge the existence of the relationship.

    It's like saying Catwoman and Batman have an ongoing monogamous relationship and yet Catwoman is never shown in Batman's life. It just rubs me the wrong way <shrug>

  15. #45
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    To me, this is the Catch-22.

    There aren't good WW driven DC crossovers, so a lot of the 'oldtime' WW fans would like to see her take a more prominent role in the DCU. A crossover where Diana is front and center and saves the day (as opposed to Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, Flash, etc.) would be a welcome change.

    So now that Diana is becoming more popular, the writer doesn't want anything to do with such things.

    And again, I don't think a few panels of Superman would kill him. A simple scene where they're spending down-time together and then they both get called off to their respective stories would at least acknowledge the existence of the relationship.

    It's like saying Catwoman and Batman have an ongoing monogamous relationship and yet Catwoman is never shown in Batman's life. It just rubs me the wrong way <shrug>
    Well, she didn't have much of a "down-time" since issue 4. The way the story is scripted she always has a purpose that is urgent enough to justify her not having random dates right about now.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

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