Best Green Lantern

[BohemiaDrinker]

Or they simply don't like him? It's a legitimate opinion to hold and sometimes the best way to express an order of preference is to do so in the negative. For instance, many more people dislike Guy Gardner and will cite him being an arrogant, rude bonehead. If they prefer Kyle to Guy for that reason then fine, but I wouldn't call that propping up their favourite by playing down another - it's just one way of expressing an opinion.

In essence, by saying those things about Hal they're not saying the obvious point that 'Lantern X is a likable character, while Hal is....'.

This is coming from someone who enjoys stories about Hal (and Barry for that matter).

As someone who strongly dislikes Jordan while having no particular attachment to Kyle, I have to say that mine IS an opinion that frequently gets lost among all the other guys who dislike Joprdan because, basically, he is not Kyle. I`m not saying that people`s opnions should be pre-judged (Hell, just because I don`t like the new characterization for Billy Batson I had to dodge a lot of people saying "THE NEW 52 IS AWESOME AND YOU`RE JUST BITTER"), but with the Kyle/Hal debacle, this sort of stuff is so frequent that is hard to ignore or not account for.

[Deviates]

As someone who strongly dislikes Jordan while having no particular attachment to Kyle, I have to say that mine IS an opinion that frequently gets lost among all the other guys who dislike Joprdan because, basically, he is not Kyle. I`m not saying that people`s opnions should be pre-judged (Hell, just because I don`t like the new characterization for Billy Batson I had to dodge a lot of people saying "THE NEW 52 IS AWESOME AND YOU`RE JUST BITTER"), but with the Kyle/Hal debacle, this sort of stuff is so frequent that is hard to ignore or not account for.

Not liking Jordan because he isn't Kyle is a huge simplification of an opinion which indeed makes it seem fanboy-ish. I don't believe it's the case with the majority of people who dislike Hal as implied though. The two are are incredibly different characters so I don't see what the issue is with saying you prefer Kyle to Hal because Hal is too....

[Desaad]

A little disappointed, yes, but not bitterly. But tend to look at characters more in the lines of "what they represent", or "what their core characteristics are (to me, anyway)", and worry less about the shifts in characterization that happen from time to time. For instance, I really like Midnighter, but I have no interest in that sorry excuse they`re showing in Stormwatch right now. I hate Byrne`s Superman, but I didn't hate "Superman" while Byrne was writing; the same sentiment I have with the latest Geoff Johns Flash run.

The current version of Kilowog has absolutely nothing in common with the original, though. They don't 'represent' the same thing. They don't even LOOK like the same character, they changed the design almost immediately upon Joe Staton leaving the book.

[Desaad]

Not liking Jordan because he isn't Kyle is a huge simplification of an opinion which indeed makes it seem fanboy-ish. I don't believe it's the case with the majority of people who dislike Hal as implied though. The two are are incredibly different characters so I don't see what the issue is with saying you prefer Kyle to Hal because Hal is too....

I, frankly, see it as a natural one.

You're a Kyle fan, you want him to be the star, and the existence of Hal Jordan stops that from happening. Or, pre Rebirth, you had a lot of us telling you that Hal was the superior character.

I don't think it's unreasonable, even if it's not necessarily steeped in fact, for a Kyle fan to dislike Hal simply because he does like Kyle. I wouldn't say that everyone who hates Hal has that as their basis of hate, but it makes sense to be psychologically.

[BohemiaDrinker]

The current version of Kilowog has absolutely nothing in common with the original, though. They don't 'represent' the same thing. They don't even LOOK like the same character, they changed the design almost immediately upon Joe Staton leaving the book.

Yes, they changed his design (and gave him several artists interpretations that I don`t care much for) and several of his traits. That`s true to any character, though; even Superman. Current Kilowog (well, the little i`ve read of him in recent years) has more in common with the one I remember from when I was a kid than current Kyle has with original Kyle.

I, frankly, see it as a natural one.

You're a Kyle fan, you want him to be the star, and the existence of Hal Jordan stops that from happening. Or, pre Rebirth, you had a lot of us telling you that Hal was the superior character.

I don't think it's unreasonable, even if it's not necessarily steeped in fact, for a Kyle fan to dislike Hal simply because he does like Kyle. I wouldn't say that everyone who hates Hal has that as their basis of hate, but it makes sense to be psychologically.

I see part of this "spite" posts/preferences as consequences of the DC itself has handled these transitions. Maybe people that prefer Kyle don`t actually need him ton be the star, but get annopyed with all the "Greatest GL of all time" talk. I`m not invested in GL enough to care, but that`s exactly how I felt in the Flash camp.

[Desaad]

Yes, they changed his design (and gave him several artists interpretations that I don`t care much for) and several of his traits. That`s true to any character, though; even Superman. Current Kilowog (well, the little i`ve read of him in recent years) has more in common with the one I remember from when I was a kid than current Kyle has with original Kyle.

I strongly disagree with that.

Kilowog as originally created was a gentle, sensitive, sweet behemoth whose personality was specifically in contrast to his hulking form, whose way of speaking was specifically meant to subvert the fact that he was an unparalleled genius who built time machines and created the Rocket Reds.

The current Kilowog is a cookie cutter "drill instructor with a heart of gold" and has much more in common with Arkkis Chummuck than he does with the original Kilowog.

I see part of this "spite" posts/preferences as consequences of the DC itself has handled these transitions. Maybe people that prefer Kyle don`t actually need him ton be the star, but get annopyed with all the "Greatest GL of all time" talk. I`m not invested in GL enough to care, but that`s exactly how I felt in the Flash camp.

I don't see a lto of the "Greatest GL of all Time" talk in the books themselves centering on Hal. It crops up occasionally, but we got exactly the same thign for Kyle (You will surpass him), and you get that for EVERY character, save for a select few abberations like Jack Knight.

That's just the way these power fantasy comics go.

[The Darknight Detective]

Or they simply don't like him?

Of course that's a valid reason. I didn't say all Hal-haters disliked him because he's an obstacle for their own fan-favorite. However, those who do dislike Hal on simply that merit don't just say "oh, he's so boring" or "who want's your father's Green Lantern?" stuff that I read ad nauseum around here. They tend to be able to explain exactly what bothers them about the character in a way that, while I may disagree, I can understand. They also try their darnedest not to inflame the pro-Hal faction with their criticisms, too.

[El Sombrero]

I think Hal is a deeper character than most give him credit for. He has serious attitude and commitment problems and is overconfident; he often acts pretty childish, and the limitless power that he has in his possession creates interpersonal conflicts. However, he ultimately does have the stubborn willpower necessary of a Green Lantern. His flaws make him way more interesting to read than Kyle or John.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I strongly disagree with that.

Kilowog as originally created was a gentle, sensitive, sweet behemoth whose personality was specifically in contrast to his hulking form, whose way of speaking was specifically meant to subvert the fact that he was an unparalleled genius who built time machines and created the Rocket Reds.

The current Kilowog is a cookie cutter "drill instructor with a heart of gold" and has much more in common with Arkkis Chummuck than he does with the original Kilowog.

True, but I still see him that way. Granted, I haven`t read a lot of GL comics lately, but nothing I' ve seen contradicts his nature, even with the "badass" angle being pushed once too often.

I don't see a lto of the "Greatest GL of all Time" talk in the books themselves centering on Hal. It crops up occasionally, but we got exactly the same thign for Kyle (You will surpass him), and you get that for EVERY character, save for a select few abberations like Jack Knight.

That's just the way these power fantasy comics go.

Again, I wouldn't know. I`ve cut back a lot on GL since Blackest Night (and, in hindsight, I should have done so after Sinestro Corps), but my point here is that once you have multiple characters on a franchise which all have had the spotlight to themselves, all with built fanbases and all, there should be some attempt at balancing things out. Not Geoff Johns strongest suit, for sure, and both the more meaningful situations in which this happened were handled by him. So you get stuff like Kyle turning into Parallax's host and suddenly having the ugliest, most forgettable uniform among earth
GLs (even though it contradicts the character greatly) or Barry Allen being "The source-creator-engine" of the Speed Force while Wally gets bitch-slapped by one of his C-List villains.

I`m not a Kyle fan particularly, but I`m a Wally one, and, at least to me, this kind of in-story situation ends up being waaaay more bothersome than "the other guy" having the spolight. Even though it`s not really comparable, I think Morrison dealt with a somewhat similar situation with much more elegance in hi Batman run. (Not fair comparing to compare Johns and Morrison, I know, it`s just a broad example).

[The Darknight Detective]

Not liking Jordan because he isn't Kyle is a huge simplification of an opinion which indeed makes it seem fanboy-ish. I don't believe it's the case with the majority of people who dislike Hal as implied though. The two are are incredibly different characters so I don't see what the issue is with saying you prefer Kyle to Hal because Hal is too....

I have zero problems with anybody saying they prefer any GL over Hal. But when somebody says Hal Jordan was at his best as Parallax, then we're moving from mere fan preference into an area that's not appreciated by many of us.

[The Darknight Detective]

When I first started reading Green Lantern, it was because he was co-starring with Green Arrow. Even then, I never really liked Hal, particularly since Ollie was just so obviously his moral superior and far more willing to stand up for what was right (the only times Hal seemed to challenge the Guardians' authority was if they dared to interfere in his love life). At the same time, I was discovering Alan and the JSA, and they just blew me away. I dropped the GL book for quite awhile after Green Arrow left, and when I picked it up again it was just in time to find Hal having another temper tantrum and vowing to quit for good over a woman. John Stewart came as such a relief, though he was still no Alan Scott.

I have to re-read my Bronze Age Green Lanterns again, Tony, because this Hal Jordan you speak of doesn't jibe with the one that I remember. At all..

I will say this, though: I did love Alan Scott almost as much as Hal back then.

[SLGBARTELL]

I voted Guy Gardner.

I had always hated the character. I thought he was a just an annoying jerk used to make the other characters look good or for unfunny comic relief. That all changed when I started reading Dave Gibbons' GLC. He became like another poster put it a Bruce Willis type character. He was still a loud mouth and kind of a dick, but you could also see that under the bravado that he was a not just a good guy, but a hero that would do whatever it takes to save the day.

Plus, if you saved the universe every month, wouldn't you be cocky too?

[SilverZeal]

Y r Baz & Jade on d list?

[LoneNecromancer]

I strongly disagree with that.

Kilowog as originally created was a gentle, sensitive, sweet behemoth whose personality was specifically in contrast to his hulking form, whose way of speaking was specifically meant to subvert the fact that he was an unparalleled genius who built time machines and created the Rocket Reds.

The current Kilowog is a cookie cutter "drill instructor with a heart of gold" and has much more in common with Arkkis Chummuck than he does with the original Kilowog.

Wow, really?

I had no idea.

[Sandor Clegane]

The vast majority of fans who dislike Hal only do so because they want their favorite Lantern to be #1 instead. Rather than detailing the good things about the one they like better, we have to hear about boring Hal or this or that. The same goes for Barry Allen. While I can understand this to a certain sense, it's not very productive and very transparent.

Very well said.

It's entirely possible to dislike *any* fictional character, or remain unmoved by them.

But GL fans tend to get like sports fans - highly competitive. And if their favorite isn't the number one guy, they go at the number one guy to prop up their favorite. A lot of Hal fans did this to Kyle in the 90s. The reverse took hold 10 years ago, when they brought Hal back to great success. A lot of 90s fans had a hard time dealing with it. Some still do. As you say, it's really transparent.

But hey, 90s fans have had a hard decade. Maybe we should let 'em have their hate-on?