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  1. #16
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    I remember when I looked through the trade paperback as a youngster. It really was a sad comic book.

    Unfortunately, if you kill off a superhero today, it means next to nothing for two reasons. First, the idea's been done to death (the most appropriate pun if you ask me). Second, the very concept of "superhero" has been diminished. These days, it'd be a relief if a lot of superheroes died - they'd no longer be miserable, or they'd no longer be assholes.

  2. #17
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    Unfortunately, if you kill off a superhero today, it means next to nothing for two reasons. First, the idea's been done to death (the most appropriate pun if you ask me). Second, the very concept of "superhero" has been diminished. These days, it'd be a relief if a lot of superheroes died - they'd no longer be miserable, or they'd no longer be assholes.
    You forgot the third reason - you know damn well they're gonna be back within 6-12 months.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  3. #18
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bullseye View Post
    Next thing you know The new 52 will be 20!
    Assuming they don't do another reboot before then.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  4. #19
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    These days, it'd be a relief if a lot of superheroes died - they'd no longer be miserable
    That was already true of at least two-thirds of Marvel though (also Batman). I dunno where this idea that comics are more miserable comes from, because damn if Spider-Man isn't a mopey bastard in the 60s.
    "We must fight on!"
    "We'll die. We fight and we die, that's how it goes."
    "Then we die gloriously!"
    "There's an important word there, and it's not gloriously."
    - Only You Can Save Mankind

  5. #20
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles RB View Post
    That was already true of at least two-thirds of Marvel though (also Batman). I dunno where this idea that comics are more miserable comes from, because damn if Spider-Man isn't a mopey bastard in the 60s.
    I'm not extremely familiar with old Spider-Man stuff, but I know that he was a teenager in those comic books, so it wouldn't strike me as cynical to have a teenager superhero be mopey.

    I also believe it's inaccurate to suggest that mainstream comic book heroes from the 1960s were dealing with the sort of things we would find in works like Identity Crisis.

    In the case of Batman, yes, he's always been darker than the rest, but he reaches new lows in things like Nolan's trilogy. We're at the point where superheroes have saturated several types of media, and different versions of characters wind up impacting not only each other but also our perception of superheroes.

  6. #21
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    I also believe it's inaccurate to suggest that mainstream comic book heroes from the 1960s were dealing with the sort of things we would find in works like Identity Crisis.
    They didn't deal with rape, no, but people being bumped off and villains finding out their identities* and soap opera guff, that's all in there. Marvel also loved its "hated and feared" trope and the Thing being all angsty because he's an ugly bugger... If we don't like heroes being miserable, we have to blame Stan Lee. It's all his fault, he made soap opera angst a big thing and Chris Claremont & others ramped it up.

    * That was a weird thing for IdC to make a big thing about as if it wasn't a well worn trope.

    In the case of Batman, yes, he's always been darker than the rest, but he reaches new lows in things like Nolan's trilogy.
    That's true. However, mainstream audiences lap it up. (I don't see them lapping it up with Superman though) They also liked the X-Men and Spider-Man emoing the place up, at least for some of the films.
    "We must fight on!"
    "We'll die. We fight and we die, that's how it goes."
    "Then we die gloriously!"
    "There's an important word there, and it's not gloriously."
    - Only You Can Save Mankind

  7. #22
    Senior Member Ed Cunard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    The death of Superman was overrated, but the Reign of the Supermen was a pretty good story.
    I still think the whole "Funeral For a Friend" bit was a great bit of superhero storytelling.

  8. #23
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Yeah, "Death" was just a big cool fight scene to set it up: Funeral/Reign/Return were the actual story.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  9. #24
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    You forgot the third reason - you know damn well they're gonna be back within 6-12 months.
    With a rockin' new mullet
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    My 2014 1000 comic progress

  10. #25
    14 Time Rita's Champion SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Well in Batman (Bruce Wayne) and Captain America (Steve Rodgers) it took them awhile. Like a year and half to 2 years to fully come back.
    "Heads up-- If Havok's position in UA #5 really upset you, it's time to drown yourself hobo piss. Seriously, do it. It's the only solution." - Rick Remender

    Sucks 200 character limit.

  11. #26
    Professional Scalliwag thehod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Robb View Post
    For me, it was just another part of a great run on the Superman books, from about '89 to '94-ish. Reign of the Supermen had me running to the comic shop each week like I was twelve again.
    Yeah, me too.
    The Hod: Novelist, raconteur and celebrated sexual athlete.

  12. #27
    Professional Scalliwag thehod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles RB View Post
    I remember Gerard Jones's The Comic Book Heroes arguing that it was one of the things that started to do in the speculators - namely, Superman #76 came out and they went "hang on...", because they didn't know death meant "death" and not death like comic fans did.
    The Comic Book Heroes is a great read, despite Jones's bitchyness about anything post 1988.
    The Hod: Novelist, raconteur and celebrated sexual athlete.

  13. #28
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Well in Batman (Bruce Wayne) and Captain America (Steve Rodgers) it took them awhile. Like a year and half to 2 years to fully come back.
    I thought it only took a few issues for Batman. And as far as Captain America goes, it really doesn't count in my opinion if the character that just died is replaced with someone physically indistinguishable who wears the same exact costume and calls himself the same exact thing. Captain America never skipped a beat. Just for a while Cap was Bucky when the mask was off, which wasn't all that often I'd imagine, considering the mask was never off in any of the Cap comics I had as a kid.
    The Copper Age is my Golden Age
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  14. #29
    Poolryuken Kusanagi's Avatar
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    Think this goes here, I don't agree with him on his opening on Superman, but I do love the conclusion. Death of Superman permanently killed off death as being relevant in comics or at least in the big 2.

    Liked Deadpool before it was cool...

  15. #30
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehod View Post
    The Comic Book Heroes is a great read, despite Jones's bitchyness about anything post 1988.
    I love the bitchyness when it comes to Milestone - "oh it's comics for black people, of course sales are low, there's NO PROBLEMS IN THE MARKET AT ALL."
    "We must fight on!"
    "We'll die. We fight and we die, that's how it goes."
    "Then we die gloriously!"
    "There's an important word there, and it's not gloriously."
    - Only You Can Save Mankind

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