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  1. #61
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    But if you are reading the book in 10 minutes and fail to understand it usually means you aren't really trying either.
    I understand how you feel, RayRay1127. The story is just an introduction to countless of characters that doesn't go deep in characterization. After one year I still have no idea who Zola is about. Her family name must be MacGuffin, indeed. She's just a name with nothing else to me. I don't care if she dies or not, if her baby dies or not, because Azzarello fails to flesh her out how different she is than the rest of the gang. All the others are like names with a specific visual design and powers set to differenciate them from each other. Nothing else much with barely a motivation to do this or that. As a matter of a fact almost all of them speak with the same voice, making puns. It's so superficial. There's no fat around the bone I can chew on if I want to role play those characters. I pity other writers to use them. It's almost like I can come up with two adjectives for every character, nothing really complex, hm? War just seems tired and old, Strife a sarcastic troublemaker, Hera a bitter and jealous wife, etc. It's probably why Azzarello is adding more and more new characters because he doesn't have much else to tell us about those characters. We need to be distracted by who we'll meet next because the current ones are so swallow. And the whole plot itself because of that is really thin. A sentence or two to describ it would be a 'Parade Of The Greek Gods'. I love Greek mythology and sadly this isn't epic, this isn't horrible, this isn't compeling. Maybe if the artwork was different, had more detailed into it I'd enjoy meeting those new guys like in the preview of this thread? A lack of details in everything (pictures and text) is preventing me from doing so, I guess. I'm still around to see what's next only because of my not dying (yet) love for WW. And speaking of her, finally, WW herself seemed she had no life at all prior from meeting Zola in London. That story could've been told probably without messing up WW's origin and background. After all, the Amazon warrior Diana is just a bodyguard if you remove her family connection to them and the story doesn't seem suffering much even so, in my own opinion. Still, I have no idea why the god of war would like a demi god to replace him. And... Bah.

    Have fun with my wall of text, hehehe.
    Last edited by Frank Fournier; 11-17-2012 at 03:21 PM.
    ~ One thousand apologies if I'm using broken English. ~

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    I understand how you feel, RayRay1127. The story is just an introduction to countless of characters that doesn't go deep in characterization. After one year I still have no idea who Zola is about. Her family name must be MacGuffin, indeed. She's just a name with nothing else to me. I don't care if she dies or not, if her baby dies or not, because Azzarello fails to flesh her out how different she is than the rest of the gang. All the others are like names with a specific visual design and powers set to differenciate them from each other. Nothing else much with barely a motivation to do this or that. As a matter of a fact almost all of them speak with the same voice, making puns. It's so superficial. There's no fat around the bone I can chew on if I want to role play those characters. I pity other writers to use them. It's almost like I can come up with two adjectives for every character, nothing really complex, hm? War just seems tired and old, Strife a sarcastic troublemaker, Hera a bitter and jealous wife, etc. It's probably why Azzarello is adding more and more new characters because he doesn't have much else to tell us about those characters. We need to be distracted by who we'll meet next because the current ones are so swallow. And the whole plot itself because of that is really thin. A sentence or two to describ it would be a 'Parade Of The Greek Gods'. I love Greek mythology and sadly this isn't epic, this isn't horrible, this isn't compeling. Maybe if the artwork was different, had more detailed into it I'd enjoy meeting those new guys like in the preview of this thread? A lack of details in everything (pictures and text) is preventing me from doing so, I guess. I'm still around to see what's next only because of my not dying (yet) love for WW. And speaking of her, finally, WW herself seemed she had no life at all prior from meeting Zola in London. That story could've been told probably without messing up WW's origin and background. After all, the Amazon warrior Diana is just a bodyguard if you remove her family connection to them and the story doesn't seem suffering much even so, in my own opinion. Still, I have no idea why the god of war would like a demi god to replace him. And... Bah.

    Have fun with my wall of text, hehehe.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Don-Jack's Avatar
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    One thing that is of my understanding: it seems the "god" and "demigod" terms don't measure power (or don't have that much of difference) in the UDC, as DC keep referring to WW as a goddess (on that "Who's Who"), demigods battles gods, Apollo's words about Diana, and all that...
    Sexism: men are from Ares, women are from Aphrodite.

  4. #64

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    Oops,wrong forum. Nevermind.

  5. #65
    "Trust No One" agent_graves's Avatar
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    Ah, the book I look forward to the most every month, is it Wednesday yet...

  6. #66
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    I wonder if War will show up not just in the present but in Sirraca's backstory. There was a WW! campaign going on in Palestine in 1917, so War could easily have been around.

    Also, I wonder if Just Deserts is in part a clue that Justice (Athena) will finally be showing up.

  7. #67
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    I know. Truth hurts.

    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Also, I wonder if Just Deserts is in part a clue that Justice (Athena) will finally be showing up.
    Why not calling her Wisdom (Athena)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Azzarello
    Yes, he[Orion]’s a New God. I’m not going to fuck with Kirby!
    But Azzarello doesn't mind fucking with Marston.



    At least I like the visual design for Siracca and the way Hera looks like in the preview.

    Speaking of Hera, if Apollo can remove her powers then why can't he do the same for Diana if he thinks she's dangerous or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don-Jack View Post
    One thing that is of my understanding: it seems the "god" and "demigod" terms don't measure power (or don't have that much of difference) in the UDC, as DC keep referring to WW as a goddess (on that "Who's Who"), demigods battles gods, Apollo's words about Diana, and all that...
    So if that's the case, if DC made it official that Diana is a goddess, then I don't know what to say. As a kid when I found out WW I thought she was a woman super strong, super fast, so wise and so pretty, and for decades I was right while reading books from Marston to Messner-Loebs. So the general audience will believe WW is a goddess now? What chances do Centaurs, minotaurs and what else not immortals have against a deity? Where's the danger? Is she going to be stuck dealing with gods only?
    ~ One thousand apologies if I'm using broken English. ~

  8. #68
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    Brian Azzarello, the sentence or two for Wonder Woman in the past was "The Amazing Amazon".

    People outside of comics know what is an Amazon and what Amazing means like what is a Man and what Steel means.

    And I prefer "The Amazing Amazon" over "Zeus's daughter" anyway.



    Brian Azzarello, how can you think the direction for that character was going to be a mistake, right at her core, if YOU KNEW NOTHING ABOUT HER? It makes no sense.

    So when you wrote her in your "For Tomorrow" story, you used a character that you knew nothing about? That explains why WW was out of character there. Why are writers allowed to write characters they know nothing about?

    Meanwhile, now I really dislike his Zeus's daughter...
    Agree. Amazon Princess works, too.

    Even my four year old daughter can understand it. "I don't need you to turn on the light daddy. I'm brave like an Amazon."

    It works.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  9. #69
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayRay1127 View Post
    I've finally broken down and started reading this version of Wonder Woman... and it's really funny to me that this book is so "critically acclaimed"... To me, I wait a month to read a comic for less than 10 minutes... That is NOT good writing to me, as it's hard to follow a story that's given in such minuscule parts.
    THANK YOU!!!!!


    It's genuinely a relief to hear that it is not just me!
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    Why not calling her Wisdom (Athena)?[
    I called Athena Justice because that's what War calls her when he mentions her in #13. Justice, along with Wisdom (etc.), is part of what Athena represented in mythology; she's supposed to have founded the Athenian law courts.She could be called Wisdom; maybe Azz will have someone call her that in another context, the way he has Hermes called the Messenger in ever issue until 12, when Demeter refers to him as Thief. Anyway,because Athena is called Justice in #12, I'm wondering if the word Just in the title of #13 is partly a reference to her.

    I still have no idea who Zola is about. Her family name must be MacGuffin, indeed. She's just a name with nothing else to me. I don't care if she dies or not, if her baby dies or not, because Azzarello fails to flesh her out how different she is than the rest of the gang
    She's the young woman who has lived without a family, her father having gone to jail and her mother having died (#4). Wonder Woman calls her "the girl in the middle of nowhere" (#2), which to me partly explains why Wonder Woman empathizes with her, having also felt like a lost misfit, an ugly duckling, at times. As Zola shows in #4, n her solitude she has leaned to be a feisty survivor, but she has also acquired an understanding of the value of the community and of the family she lacks; she's even able to remind Wonder Woman that her family is worth keeping (#3). Perhaps her loneliness also explains her openness to casual sex, although, as she says in #2, she also just "like[s] men." She is pretty unflappable; her reaction to learning that she is carrying Zeus's could is simply "Oh sh---!" (#1). As she reminds Hermes (#9), she's holding up pretty well for someone who has been to hell and back--and even in hell, she held off shades with a shotgun. She is, as Lennox says and as Hera is finding out, a "firecracker' (12); although she's in way over her head, she remains hotheaded and fiercely independent, as well as fiercely loyal; when pursued by Sun and Moon, instead of running off and letting her friends fight her battle, she tries driving a truck into Sun. She is remarkably, though perhaps unwisely, candid with Hera (#12), and she had proved earlier that she's not afraid to verbally spar with a goddess, although she doesn't quite have the hang of it by #3--and she apparently was mean to fireflies in her youth. And she proves herself verbally sharp enough to earn a little respect from Strife (#3). She is a realist; while the more idealistic Wonder Woman listens to Lennox's life story and hears about "good versus evil, winner takes all," Zola hears that sometimes the war is just about survival (#4).

    Hey, every character can't be as subtly crafted as Marston's Etta Candy, who is obese and likes to says "woo woo!"--but it's a start!

    Maybe later I'll point out how the characterization of Hera and War is a lot richer than one or two adjectives.
    Last edited by slvn; 11-18-2012 at 06:15 AM.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Don-Jack's Avatar
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    I spend around 13~15 minutes on EVERY comic book I am reading. I timed it.
    It's just impression that Wonder Woman goes faster. (Well, maybe you're so eager for what comes on the next page that you read it too fast. )
    Sexism: men are from Ares, women are from Aphrodite.

  12. #72

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    I read every single in less than ten minutes...
    BB

  13. #73
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    THANK YOU!!!!!


    It's genuinely a relief to hear that it is not just me!
    I've been saying that forever too, Brett. But I almost passed out from turning blue in the face so I stopped. LOL.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    I know. Truth hurts.
    You'd be surprised which truth it is.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    .... As a matter of a fact almost all of them speak with the same voice, making puns. It's so superficial. There's no fat around the bone I can chew on if I want to role play those characters. I pity other writers to use them. It's almost like I can come up with two adjectives for every character, nothing really complex, hm? War just seems tired and old, Strife a sarcastic troublemaker, Hera a bitter and jealous wife, etc.
    Well, let's take Hera as an example. We can look at Ares, Strife or any of the others later, if you want to.

    Hera's voice is actually quite different from, say, Apollo's. She puns a lot less, and when she does pun, it's not just to fool around with words but to be acerbic ('that cockless coop," #4). She's not a child of privilege who has plenty of leisure play with language; she is a survivor as well as a nominal ruler. Her voice is strident and also pitiful; she is is both imperious and fragile.

    This makes sense because she's the Queen, and in the patriarchal civilization that created her, Queen "is a word burdened with expectations," as Strife says in #2. She's expected to defend her position, and if she doesn't, she may lose that position (though ironically, she ends up losing it by tryign to defend it)She can't afford to allow other women and their children to further displace her from the place of pride her marriage gives her. At times she seems like a stereotypical cackling supervillain, but at times--like when we hear Poseidon say that he will have her on her knees, ans their brother Zeus did--we realize that she is the way she is because of the brutality she has faced and the precariousness of her position as a woman near the top of a patriarchy. It's a trap fairly commonly seen in novels and movies set in Victorian times or similar times and places. Even in the middle of confronting Hippolyta, Hera shows her vulnerability by asking how to make her husband lover her; cearly, she has become bitter because she has been made to feel unloved. And in that same confrontation, she shows how conflicted she is, as the goddess of women on one hand, and persecutor of her women vials on the other; she says she wants to forgive Hippolyta but cannot. That burden of expectations is too strong; as Queen, she is expected to protect her position by punishing her rivals, and she must do as she is expected to do. And she is also expected to rely on her husband; so, remarkably, even though she doesn't trust him, she still has faith in him to be what his nature and role make him--a very fine distinction, between trust and faith, that she and Azzarello make in 12. And she really likes ice cream. And now that she's "mortal," I think there's a fairy good chance that we'll see her develop morally.

    If you're reading the book and thinking that she sounds just like everyone else and can be summed up adequately in two words, and if Zola is just a name to you, and if at the same time you're finding the book to be too fast a read, I can't help thinking that you might enjoy it more if you were to read slower or, as I do, reread often. That's how you may get your money's worth.

    You may say I'm reading this all in, but I've just mentioned the issues that Ive inferred it from. As in watching a movie or reading a literary novel--or as in observing people in the real world"- you're not always told "character X has these characteristics"; you infer their characteristics from what they say and do.
    Last edited by slvn; 11-18-2012 at 08:30 AM.

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