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  1. #16
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    You should try Action comics. There's never a moment (really) where Superman isn't being put through some sort of hell. There he fights guys like the 5 D devil that Holmes mentioned and Cap. Comet who is the physic equivalent of Superman. Cap. pushes Superman to use his powers in different ways and all the while he acknowledges the physically Superman can't be beat.....but the two fight to a stand still.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Well he's up against the Devil now, a 5 dimensional, reality warping Devil. The new villain H'El seems to be pretty damn powerful.

    But to address Kryptonians running the universe, it's already been explained that their Sun has kept it extremely difficult to escape their Sun's gravity.
    Was it the sun or Krypton?
    People who chime in on vs. threads with "I don't like Superman at all, but he'd win.", STOP HELPING! Superman doesn't need your damning him with faint praise, thank you.

  3. #18
    Unreasonably Opinionated Conway's Avatar
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    Superman has to face tougher and tougher foes and get more and more "OVERPOWERED", right up until Doomsday shows up.

    And it had to be the sun, their bodies and mechanical abilities would have had to adapt to the gravity of their planet. But escaping a Yellow Giant takes way more power than our little red dwarf.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Krypton had a red giant star

  5. #20
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayfarejourneyman View Post
    My issue with Supes has never been that he is OP, but that there are rarely things that match him.

    I like conflict driven stories, and I've rarely read superman stories where big blue is actually challenged in a meaningful way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Well he's up against the Devil now, a 5 dimensional, reality warping Devil. The new villain H'El seems to be pretty damn powerful.
    Also: Darkseid, Doomsday, Zod, Fiora Ursa, Non, other Phantom Zone villains, faux Zods, Imperiex, Dominous, Millennium Giants, Asmodel, Helspoint, Starbreaker, Sun Eaters, Solaris, Kryptonite Man, Metallo, Titano, Conduit, Blaze, Satanus, 666, Ch'thona, Ultraman, Bizarro, Mxyzptlk...
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  6. #21
    Senior Member Luck911's Avatar
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    Yes he is too powerful but fans don't care

  7. #22
    Senior Member Castel's Avatar
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    That's the way i love my superman.

  8. #23
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Taylor View Post
    Superman isn't overpowered, considering that his rogues gallery includes alien conquerors, quasi-omnipotent imps, evil gods, tyrant suns, super criminal minds, a bald guy that back in the day could invent anything, an imperfect yet very powerful clone, an evil version of himself, powerful wizards. He has to be powerful because he's Superman, he's meant to do the impossible when the odds are impossible.
    Quote Originally Posted by manduck37 View Post
    No, Superman isn't overpowered. George hits it right on the head. Superman is meant to deal with threats that other heroes can't overcome. He battles universe shaking, cosmic threats. He's the guy who finds a way to do the impossible.

    Besides, overpower compared to who? Is The Incredible Hulk overpowered? He starts off almost invincible and gets tougher and stronger as he gets angrier. Is Thor overpowered? He's the literal god of thunder. He battles other gods. He has a whole host of powers, including being one of the strongest and toughest heroes in the Marvel Universe. How about Wolverine? Any injury heals in seconds, no matter how bad. He has an unbreakable skeleton and claws that cut through anything. He has a whole laundry list of powers from heightened senses to a healing factor. He's unkillable. Yet no one complains. How about Green Lantern? He can create anything and could even transmute on material into another at one time. Or The Flash. Look at some of the feats Wally West pulled off. Let's look at Professor X, who could mind wipe the entire planet if he wanted to. Or Magneto, who could rip the planet apart by manipulating the magnetic fields. Does anyone complain about them. No. So to complain that Superman is overpowered is flat out ridiculous.
    Great posts. Exactly my thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ascended View Post
    Superman is only overpowered if you want to read about Spider-Man.
    Quoted for truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfarejourneyman View Post
    My issue with Supes has never been that he is OP, but that there are rarely things that match him. Also, I find it improbably that Kryptonians and Daxamites have not overrun the universe, given their natural abilities and tech levels.

    I like conflict driven stories, and I've rarely read superman stories where big blue is actually challenged in a meaningful way. Now, I have not read much superman in the last five years, but I've picked up the events, and I've rarely encountered stories where superman is really threatened. Superboy Prime is one of those cases, but beyond that?

    Also, what I've heard Post-Flashpoint, his powers and intellect seem to be at a level where he essentially is the entire justice league locked in one guy. With flash-level speed, planet juggling super-strength, invulnerability that doesnt seem to have much of a limit, and significant intelligence...it just seems like he should be a solo-act. Coming down to the level where he can interact with the league in a meaningful way sends mixed messages.
    Not even Superman can be everywhere at once.
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye Len (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

  9. #24
    Senior Member ascended's Avatar
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    I will certainly concede that a poor writer, or a writer that focuses on more street level tales, makes for terrible Superman stories. Chuck Dixon for example, writes a perfectly fine Batman. But hes not the guy you want behind Superman. For Superman, you need a complete whackjob of a writer who is crazy enough to think of truly preposterous concepts and threats. Sentient suns, living black holes, self-aware ideas, evil galaxies on a rampage. Stuff like that.

    But the whole point of Superman is that he does what no one else can do. This is the guy you call when s**t has hit the fan and no one, not even Batman, has a clue what to do.

    Psychopathic villain tries to blow up a city? You call whoever. Plenty of heroes can handle that. Hell, Green Arrow can handle that on a good day.

    Rogue planetoid from an alternate reality pops into lower earth orbit out of nowhere and you only have two minutes before it crashes into Europe? You call Superman.

    Plenty of people are in his power range. The Manhunter, experienced Lanterns, Shazam, Apollo, Wonder Woman (well, used to be. Now? Not sure.) the list goes on and on. But none of them, in the end, multitask like Clark does. None of them can make that split second snap judgement call. None of them are the leader Superman is. That's his real strength. Its not his powers, its how he uses them.

    As for the League, they arent lessened by his presence. Flash is faster than Clark. He can do things Clark cant. Same with Green Lantern, or even Cyborg. They all have their roles to play, and with the threats the League is supposed to face, none of them are useless or redundant.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck911 View Post
    Yes he is too powerful but fans don't care
    Why should fans care?
    People who chime in on vs. threads with "I don't like Superman at all, but he'd win.", STOP HELPING! Superman doesn't need your damning him with faint praise, thank you.

  11. #26
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    Krypton was a super massive terrestrial planet whos gravity made getting off the surface very difficult for a long time, explaining why they werent out colonizing or building an empire. Im gonna assume Daxam is like it was before, dilluted Kryptonians transplanted to another world.

    To make an example, the United States was the sole superpower and the most advanced country on the planet for 60 years and we didnt take over the world, or even spread out really.
    Last edited by Kymeric; 11-20-2012 at 02:26 PM.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Luck911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    Why should fans care?
    Because it can be a turn off for other fans or readers.For people who love it superman is ultimate embodiment of their hero fantasy basically for some Superman is the hero we created as kid who was the most powerful and never losses which is fine but certain shared setting.He comes off to some as too powerful,I find that at times myself and i love crazy power heroes(dbz,naruto,Silver Sufer,Sodom Yat,Sentry) but at times Superman and many other heroes are powerful for the setting for example

    this scene
    http://www.comicbookresources.com/pr...pid=14286&pg=6

    For some people this just a cool scene,For me the question in my mind is why Superman wasn't fast to hit woman before she blew a horn.Another example is new Superman animated movie he has this drawn out battle with bad guys but end his super speed was to much for them meaning Superman could have beaten them at any time.Superman stories for me tend end feeling like the writer does not realize how powerful he is or cool he just overpowered darkseid which turns after who is going to challenge him.

    Most heroes get the underdog card at some point you try to figure out they how the will against impossible challenge,Superman already know he will win and comes off how bad is the mismatch.I love DBZ and Bleach and the crazy power ups never bother me because the next guy is always more powerful.Superman foes at times are people that are way below his challenge level and since that is the case he would be better off being less powerful in a shared universe.When superman is fighting nothing but darkseids,hellspont,Doomsday,big cosmic threats fine but don't try to sell and Luthor,Toyman or some smucks he comes against Justice league as threats to him.

  13. #28
    Infme et fier de l'tre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck911 View Post
    Because it can be a turn off for other fans or readers.For people who love it superman is ultimate embodiment of their hero fantasy basically for some Superman is the hero we created as kid who was the most powerful and never losses which is fine but certain shared setting.He comes off to some as too powerful,I find that at times myself and i love crazy power heroes(dbz,naruto,Silver Sufer,Sodom Yat,Sentry) but at times Superman and many other heroes are powerful for the setting for example

    this scene
    http://www.comicbookresources.com/pr...pid=14286&pg=6

    For some people this just a cool scene,For me the question in my mind is why Superman wasn't fast to hit woman before she blew a horn.Another example is new Superman animated movie he has this drawn out battle with bad guys but end his super speed was to much for them meaning Superman could have beaten them at any time.Superman stories for me tend end feeling like the writer does not realize how powerful he is or cool he just overpowered darkseid which turns after who is going to challenge him.

    Most heroes get the underdog card at some point you try to figure out they how the will against impossible challenge,Superman already know he will win and comes off how bad is the mismatch.I love DBZ and Bleach and the crazy power ups never bother me because the next guy is always more powerful.Superman foes at times are people that are way below his challenge level and since that is the case he would be better off being less powerful in a shared universe.When superman is fighting nothing but darkseids,hellspont,Doomsday,big cosmic threats fine but don't try to sell and Luthor,Toyman or some smucks he comes against Justice league as threats to him.
    How is any of this worse than the Flash?
    Seriously. Nobody. Should. Ever. Be. Able. To. Touch. The Flash. The guy goes ten times the speed of light. He can vibrate through people to incapacite them. How am I supposed that Captain Cold could even get close to touch him? Who might even be a challenge to him in his Rogue Gallery, appart from Reverse Flash?
    Yet, I rarely hear anyone complain that Flash is overpowered. Or that his villains are underpowered (despite the fact they just are). Same for Green Lantern, or Silver Surfer (these guys can basically do whatever the plot require them to). It's always Superman. Give the guy a break. Fictionnal characters having behaviours that are "beneath" their power level happens all the time. Even in Bleach or DBZ.
    In DBZ, they can blow up planets, yet Frieza gets killed by a regular sword. How does that work.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  14. #29
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck911 View Post
    Because it can be a turn off for other fans or readers.For people who love it superman is ultimate embodiment of their hero fantasy basically for some Superman is the hero we created as kid who was the most powerful and never losses which is fine but certain shared setting.He comes off to some as too powerful,I find that at times myself and i love crazy power heroes(dbz,naruto,Silver Sufer,Sodom Yat,Sentry) but at times Superman and many other heroes are powerful for the setting for example

    this scene
    http://www.comicbookresources.com/pr...pid=14286&pg=6

    For some people this just a cool scene,For me the question in my mind is why Superman wasn't fast to hit woman before she blew a horn.Another example is new Superman animated movie he has this drawn out battle with bad guys but end his super speed was to much for them meaning Superman could have beaten them at any time.Superman stories for me tend end feeling like the writer does not realize how powerful he is or cool he just overpowered darkseid which turns after who is going to challenge him.

    Most heroes get the underdog card at some point you try to figure out they how the will against impossible challenge,Superman already know he will win and comes off how bad is the mismatch.I love DBZ and Bleach and the crazy power ups never bother me because the next guy is always more powerful.Superman foes at times are people that are way below his challenge level and since that is the case he would be better off being less powerful in a shared universe.When superman is fighting nothing but darkseids,hellspont,Doomsday,big cosmic threats fine but don't try to sell and Luthor,Toyman or some smucks he comes against Justice league as threats to him.
    See but your problem can be solved.....just either put Superman in situations that need more than his power, or that his powers are completely moot, or just make his enemies more powerful and more interesting (they have powers and skills that either bypass or class with Superman's powers).

    I don't understand why most people are having such a hard time wrapping their minds around this. You even said that you liked those animes because they would just be challenged by the next big thing......so then why can't Superman get that same understanding? The villains he has already fought will get more clever and will shoot higher. Lex doesn't have to be (and isn't) a one trick pony same goes for all his other villains. They can upgrade and evolve to meet the match that is Superman and Superman will have to wrack his brain and strain his body to keep up.

    This is what is known as Superhero comic books.....Batman has all the same going for him, just on a smaller scale.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Luck911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    How is any of this worse than the Flash?
    Seriously. Nobody. Should. Ever. Be. Able. To. Touch. The Flash. The guy goes ten times the speed of light. He can vibrate through people to incapacite them. How am I supposed that Captain Cold could even get close to touch him? Who might even be a challenge to him in his Rogue Gallery, appart from Reverse Flash?
    Yet, I rarely hear anyone complain that Flash is overpowered. Or that his villains are underpowered (despite the fact they just are). Same for Green Lantern, or Silver Surfer (these guys can basically do whatever the plot require them to). It's always Superman. Give the guy a break. Fictionnal characters having behaviours that are "beneath" their power level happens all the time. Even in Bleach or DBZ.
    In DBZ, they can blow up planets, yet Frieza gets killed by a regular sword. How does that work.

    Flash,GL and MM are the same thing,Superman gets the brunt of it because well..Try to name characters that superman can't beat,Then try to come on a superman board and say Superman can't beat this person.Biggest problem with Superman is he is the most powerful................. and He is the captain america of the universe meaning he will on sheer willpower in situation where he should lose and he is company poster child so he wins most of conflicts and never is allowed to look bad and He is smart enough to out smart probelms as well.

    Martian Manhunter is way more powerful than Superman but you can rarely get one Superman fan to admit that,Superman has the curse of being "The Man".

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    See but your problem can be solved.....just either put Superman in situations that need more than his power, or that his powers are completely moot, or just make his enemies more powerful and more interesting (they have powers and skills that either bypass or class with Superman's powers).

    I don't understand why most people are having such a hard time wrapping their minds around this. You even said that you liked those animes because they would just be challenged by the next big thing......so then why can't Superman get that same understanding? The villains he has already fought will get more clever and will shoot higher. Lex doesn't have to be (and isn't) a one trick pony same goes for all his other villains. They can upgrade and evolve to meet the match that is Superman and Superman will have to wrack his brain and strain his body to keep up.

    This is what is known as Superhero comic books.....Batman has all the same going for him, just on a smaller scale.
    Actually Batman has finite amount of ability,Batman behave like the animes,They power up batman with a power suit,green lantern ring,or maybe even a super power then they take it away after.Superman always starts out with in reason,Then a writer has him push a planet,The another has him go faster than light,Then same superman is still in the justice league and parademons attack and superman is being shown to struggle with them or something like that.

    With Superman they never set limits,the problem with that is problem with DBZ, Ok you can destroy one planet,Now the enemy you fight has destroy two planets to be stronger.If you keep upgrade the enemies,You keep creating the Superman problem except with the enemies.The next thing you know they are bunch of superman level villains running around earth.

    I am in the minority but i prefer that Superman was not close to being the strongest,I prefer that his brain power and smarts and his never give up attitudes are the keys to him winning.I think a moderately power Superman who is clearly a class below darksied,doomsday,etc and wins because he is smart or won't quit is better than Superman who wins because he overpowers them because he is the strong hero in the world

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