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  1. #46
    McNinja Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Genesis wouldn't work on more than one ship would it?? (If that, as we never SAW it work on anything but a planet)

    I thought Genesis's Gimmick was it terraformed whatever it hit. So unless it hit the Death Star, it should be minimally effective.
    It had an explosion that would have destroyed the Enterprise and affected an entire Nebula. That explosion in the midst of a fleet would be devastating, and that doesn't require 1 day of prep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Illidania
    Thanos, after working down a bag of pot, and chugging down one of Galactus' Cosmo Beers, started spouting off hysterical nonsense about destroying the multiverse with his mightpowers. Then, while holding up one of those rubber gloves you wear while doing dishes, slurring out that it's the Infinity Gauntlet, Squirrel girl pounces him to the ground where he passes out on the spot. Uatu then comes in and congratulates SG for saving the multiverse! :D

    ......oh wait, that actualy happened. :p

  2. #47
    Lurkish Member Captain Jibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    Yeah, movies means you don't have any of the absurdly powerful anomaly aliens, turning this into pretty much just the Alpha Quadrant powers plus one Borg Cube vs the entire Star Wars Galaxy.
    V'ger was in Star Trek The Motion Picture, and it was pretty formidable; easily took care of everything it came up against including oneshotting those Klingon battlecruisers and quickly overwhelming all of Earth's defenses. Also don't forget the Whale Prob from IV.

  3. #48
    When the two Meet... The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    It had an explosion that would have destroyed the Enterprise and affected an entire Nebula. That explosion in the midst of a fleet would be devastating, and that doesn't require 1 day of prep.
    Didn't it take Kirk's Son like 20 years to build one??

  4. #49
    Senior Member Drax1981's Avatar
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    Star Trek could sucker everyone into the Nexus, spray everything with Red Matter like some kind of monkey tossing about singularity poo, blow up stars, fire when cloaked, teleport pilots out of their fighters/mechs and lose their signal or teleport in Borg drones and start assimilating people left and right.

    Star Wars is screwed.

  5. #50
    When the two Meet... The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax1981 View Post
    Star Trek could sucker everyone into the Nexus,
    Which was a specific place and a randomly opening rift at that...

    spray everything with Red Matter like some kind of monkey tossing about singularity poo,
    Of which they only had like a couple drops?

    blow up stars,
    SO not that different from the EMpire?

    fire when cloaked, teleport pilots out of their fighters/mechs and lose their signal or teleport in Borg drones and start assimilating people left and right.
    It would be rude of me to point out how often Transpoters failed epically against the wierdest things, right?

    Star Wars is screwed.
    Only if they play stupidly.

  6. #51
    Senior Member Drax1981's Avatar
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    Way different than the Empire. Empire blew up planets, not stars. There's a subtle difference between the two.
    You're right that the Nexus is a specific location. And? Both sides can travel through space. Star Trek's side just has an advantage of knowing what the Nexus does to people.
    They had a giant red ball of the stuff. Of which they only needed a couple drops to create a black hole. So, bye superweapons, capital ships and any land units.
    I dunno, would it be rude of me to point out all the times transporting worked?

    Star Wars always plays stupidly. That's how those movies work.

  7. #52
    When the two Meet... The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax1981 View Post
    Way different than the Empire. Empire blew up planets, not stars. There's a subtle difference between the two.
    Come to thinkabout it when did they blow up stars? I thought the red Matter blew up Planets, that's why he used the Mining drill on VUlcan?

    You're right that the Nexus is a specific location. And? Both sides can travel through space. Star Trek's side just has an advantage of knowing what the Nexus does to people.
    Why would they go there is my question. That's like saying the smugglers from Star Wars could lure them into the Kessel Run and watch as all the Star Trek ships get eaten by Black Holes.


    I dunno, would it be rude of me to point out all the times transporting worked?
    Yeah, everytime they WEREN'T faced with weird metals, strange energy, or shielding. 3 for three of which are standard effects on capships.

    Star Wars always plays stupidly. That's how those movies work.
    Moreso than Star trek? I mean this is the people who's responce to planetary evacuation drones was "run away ON FOOT" and "Hit them whith a Baseball swing despite that they can shoot you with the trackers". Or who's big plan for being trapped on an exploding planet is "talk the Badguy into coming down and fighting me in hand to hand on a exploding planet". AND IT WORKED!!

    Clearly both good guys AND bad in Star Trek aren't playing with a full tactical deck here, and pretty much ALL their solutions after 2 was "We should *technobabble*, Captain!" "Do it!"

    EDIT: Or after having been mind-controlled into beleaving they were meeting GOD thought "hey, let's just shoot him with Photon Torpedoes. GOD surely can't survive THAT!!"

  8. #53
    Senior Member Drax1981's Avatar
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    Who said anything about Red Matter? Guinan's folks know how to blow up stars, which was done to change the course of the Nexus.

    Weird metals? On a capital ship? Ha ha, whatever.
    Shielding could save a capital ship from getting Borg drones transported into them but it won't do anything against Red Matter causing a singularity right next to them. None of this saves any TIE or A-wing pilot from getting teleported into space, however.

    Yes, more than Star Trek. Star Wars only had one conflict to worry about and did a laughably bad job making sense of anything.
    Star Trek ships have the job of going out to find weird stuff no one has ever seen before.

  9. #54
    When the two Meet... The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax1981 View Post
    Who said anything about Red Matter? Guinan's folks know how to blow up stars, which was done to change the course of the Nexus.
    OK, I totally did not remember the Enterprise or Guinan doing THAT...

    Shielding could save a capital ship from getting Borg drones transported into them but it won't do anything against Red Matter causing a singularity right next to them. None of this saves any TIE or A-wing pilot from getting teleported into space, however.
    Errr... Point of Accuracy, A-Wings had shields.

    Other than that, the smallest fastest thing I remember them teleporting anyone out of in the movies is when they teleported from Shuttles moving in fairly straight lines. And they had the comm badges to lock on to in that case. Did they ever lock on to someone moving at combat speed who DIDN'T have a comm badge?

    Yes, more than Star Trek. Star Wars only had one conflict to worry about and did a laughably bad job making sense of anything.
    How does "Shoot people with Big cannons" NOT make sense??

  10. #55
    Senior Member Drax1981's Avatar
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    Blowing up stars was all Soran did in Generations. That and be darkly suave.

    Scotty beamed himself and Kirk onto Enterprise while it was moving at warp. Later on, he beams Spock from his ship while simultaneously beaming Kirk and Pike from the Narada to Enterprise. This was before comm badges were created.

    I double checked and you're right A-wings have shields. So that just leaves all the TIE fighters.

    And the crazed plot holes and contrivances in Star Wars is too numerous to get into.

  11. #56
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax1981 View Post
    And the crazed plot holes and contrivances in Star Wars is too numerous to get into.
    ...You're saying this compared to Star Trek?
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  12. #57
    When the two Meet... The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax1981 View Post
    Scotty beamed himself and Kirk onto Enterprise while it was moving at warp. Later on, he beams Spock from his ship while simultaneously beaming Kirk and Pike from the Narada to Enterprise. This was before comm badges were created.
    Yes, but the Enterprise is a cap-ship, and he had a super-intelligent guy from the future giving him all the math and science to do so.

    Not something you can throw against any small fast-moving fighter.

    And the crazed plot holes and contrivances in Star Wars is too numerous to get into.
    I could say the same for Trek.

  13. #58
    McNinja Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Didn't it take Kirk's Son like 20 years to build one??
    To invent it and make it work, yes. But considering the replicator enhancements from later movies and/or Borg it shouldn't take them nearly as long to do just make another one.


    As for Red-Matter, there was a huge blob of it and it wound up creating Black Holes, it didn't blow up planets. Prep could mean cloaked Red-Matter torpedos (With 1 drop payloads) that cause mass devastation to fighter and capital ship alike.

    Borg have beamed through shields before, in TNG and Voyager if my memory isn't too fuzzy. Without experience with them enough to modulate the shields to work why should their shielding fare any better than the Enterprise-D's? Hell, they could work with the feds to make weaponized nanoprobe bombs that they beam in. They did similar in Voyager and Janeway was in Insurrection (Admiral).

    Add in V-ger, Whale-Probes (Thanks for that Jibberish), and all the non-nanoprobe stuff the Borg bring to the table and this prep battle would end in Trek's favor IMO. No curbstomp by far, but favoring Trek.
    Quote Originally Posted by Illidania
    Thanos, after working down a bag of pot, and chugging down one of Galactus' Cosmo Beers, started spouting off hysterical nonsense about destroying the multiverse with his mightpowers. Then, while holding up one of those rubber gloves you wear while doing dishes, slurring out that it's the Infinity Gauntlet, Squirrel girl pounces him to the ground where he passes out on the spot. Uatu then comes in and congratulates SG for saving the multiverse! :D

    ......oh wait, that actualy happened. :p

  14. #59
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    Borg have beamed through shields before, in TNG and Voyager if my memory isn't too fuzzy. Without experience with them enough to modulate the shields to work why should their shielding fare any better than the Enterprise-D's?
    Because the whole single-frequency phasers and shields duality mechanic is specific to Trek. It's how they fire through their own raised shields: By matching frequency so they can shoot through at the opposing vessel. It's a plot element once or twice even outside Borg episodes that if you can get the current frequency codes for an opposing vessel their shields are meaningless, and heavy encryption is used for exactly that reason.

    Wars weapons use bolts of superheated ions rather than a coherent frequency beam, and fire through their shields by opening small apertures to fire through. There's no reason a Star Destroyer or what have you would have that vulnerability, it's not a relevant design feature.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  15. #60
    When the two Meet... The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    To invent it and make it work, yes. But considering the replicator enhancements from later movies and/or Borg it shouldn't take them nearly as long to do just make another one.
    Unless the HyperUnstablium was one of the things Replicators can't make THIS week. :tounge:


    Borg have beamed through shields before, in TNG and Voyager if my memory isn't too fuzzy. Without experience with them enough to modulate the shields to work why should their shielding fare any better than the Enterprise-D's? Hell, they could work with the feds to make weaponized nanoprobe bombs that they beam in. They did similar in Voyager and Janeway was in Insurrection (Admiral).
    TV stuff!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    Because the whole single-frequency phasers and shields duality mechanic is specific to Trek. It's how they fire through their own raised shields: By matching frequency so they can shoot through at the opposing vessel. It's a plot element once or twice even outside Borg episodes that if you can get the current frequency codes for an opposing vessel their shields are meaningless, and heavy encryption is used for exactly that reason.
    That was in Generations wasn't it?? The Dumas Sisters hacked Geordi's VISOR so the could see the sheild modulations and shoot down the Enterprise-D?

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