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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    He's doing a little more than that. I find it interesting that no one seems to have noted that nothing that happend with the girl in Australia warrented the extreme response Cyclops implied. She stopped time. Authorities with weapons showed up to try to figure out what was going on and protect those there. It was clear they had no clue it was a mutant but if you lived there and that happened, you'd expect your authorities to show up and try to figure it out and protect you from whatever it was. Yet Cyclops set up the belief that they were there with guns just because she was a mutant and were going to treat her poorly after taking her into custody (which if you were there wouldn't you expect them to do that? Isn't that the police's job to figure that out? Who knows if once they knew it was an accident she might have been let go?) Yes. I get this is the MU and Marvel makes out like everyone in authority not a mutant or hero is evil all of a sudden to justify Cyclops actions but I find that just as unrealisitic as trying to make out that Cyclops stance isn't making the hate worse as well. So yes while I do think this is long and interesting arc for Cyclops, I do not think he's being some complete hero and that some of his actions are wrong and its getting old having it portrayed as so one sided and its why I'm not interested in it. If Cyclops had to deal with the real fallout of his actions both good and bad, I might care. He has stepped into villain terriority quite a bit so no just because he was a hero doesn't make him one to me now. Why is it that villains can "reform" (although I think Marvel's done a crappy job of that in their most recent tries) but a hero like Cyke can't finally fully go villain despite his intentions being "good".
    If your point is that the authorities didn't really do anything wrong then you're right. Which is exactly why they didn't have Xs engraved into their faces or weren't teleported off to limbo. Cyclops rescued someone who had no business being detained, without hurting anyone. It seems to me like you just want something to complain about.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffyblade View Post
    If your point is that the authorities didn't really do anything wrong then you're right. Which is exactly why they didn't have Xs engraved into their faces or weren't teleported off to limbo. Cyclops rescued someone who had no business being detained, without hurting anyone. It seems to me like you just want something to complain about.
    I disagree that they didn't have reason to detain her. You have an accident and people get detained all the time to sort out what happened and then released. They had every right to detain her just to figure out what happened. Heck if she actually got released then it might look better for her and mutants but what Cyke did was basically set mutant above human authority and by default is very much setting it out as a them VS us issue even to those who might not hate mutants and if Marvel wants to be honest, it would be great to see some mutant hate literally coming from Cyclops actions where he's creating some of the fear he's accusing people of having.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    I disagree that they didn't have reason to detain her. You have an accident and people get detained all the time to sort out what happened and then released. They had every right to detain her just to figure out what happened. Heck if she actually got released then it might look better for her and mutants but what Cyke did was basically set mutant above human authority and by default is very much setting it out as a them VS us issue even to those who might not hate mutants and if Marvel wants to be honest, it would be great to see some mutant hate literally coming from Cyclops actions where he's creating some of the fear he's accusing people of having.
    The problem is that you're acting as if the story has started here. afaik In the past few decades every mutant shown in human custody has been abused, experimented on, tortured, killed or some combinations of these. Under no circumstances whatsoever should mutants ever been in human custody because the human authority is completely and indefensibly anti-mutant.

    Also I'm annoyed at "the fear he's accusing people of having." Do you read X-books at all? Are you really implying that he may be incorrect about this accusation of his?
    Last edited by Fluffyblade; 11-16-2012 at 06:21 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffyblade View Post
    Also I'm annoyed at "the fear he's accusing people of having." Do you read X-books at all? Are you really implying that he may be incorrect about this accusation of his?
    Yes I read the X-books and I also read the other MU books. Its like too different worlds. One where every mutant is treated like dirt and another where there are some normal and reasonal humans living in that same world. If they are finally merging the two, then Marvel can't keep writing all human and human governments like complete mutant hating jerks just to justify Scott being "right" only because everyone else is wrong.

  5. #65
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    I would like to echo and commend Quinnhop for his praise of Sexclops earlier.

    Well said, Q.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    He's doing a little more than that. I find it interesting that no one seems to have noted that nothing that happend with the girl in Australia warrented the extreme response Cyclops implied. She stopped time. Authorities with weapons showed up to try to figure out what was going on and protect those there.
    emma was with them and her powers let her read people's minds. clearly the police were hostile or emma would have said otherwise.

  7. #67
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    They surrounded her with automatic weapons.
    Which they then aimed at her in very close range.

    ....Dude.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffyblade View Post
    The problem is that you're acting as if the story has started here. afaik In the past few decades every mutant shown in human custody has been abused, experimented on, tortured, killed or some combinations of these. Under no circumstances whatsoever should mutants ever been in human custody because the human authority is completely and indefensibly anti-mutant.

    Also I'm annoyed at "the fear he's accusing people of having." Do you read X-books at all? Are you really implying that he may be incorrect about this accusation of his?
    Marvel's mutant bigots are always so dumb to the point that it can become too cheezy to read. Really,its a unique problem that the x-men run into.
    Obviously bigotry is rooted in stupidty by nature, but you would think that Marvel could make human/mutant tension more convincing rather than just a person using a mutant power under any circumstances being automatically hated upon.

    This is why Cyclops as a renegade doesnt really impress me yet, we'll have to wait and see how far marvel takes Cyclops before he falls or if Marvel will pull him back.

  9. #69
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    I think people really need to look at Cyclops actions in the context of his own recent history, rather than some broader ethical and moral framework.

    Cyclops is a prominent mutant leader who, since he was barely out of his teens, has been fighting to protect mutants. He's witnessed discrimination, and even violence, against mutants for his entire adult life. He knows how the vast majority of human authorities are willing to either condone or actively participate in anti-mutant activities of some form or the other. He's tried Xavier's dream of peaceful co-existence but, given the current status quo, knows that its a pipe-dream at best, unless the mutants are able to deal from a position of strength. Talk of peace is useless when the 'other side' spends billions of dollars creating killing machines exclusively meant to exterminate your species/race/sub-group (whatever mutants are considered these days).

    Hell, VERY recently, this is the man who was imprisoned in a facility expressly intended for the large-scale incarceration of mutants, where it was possible for mutants to be murdered with the tacit approval of the prison staff. Understandably, that, among a LOT of other things, has hardened his perspective about the whole issue.

    I've seen a lot of comparisons between Scott and old-school Magneto and I must say that these hold true only on the surface. Magneto was an extremist who believed that mutants were the dominant species who deserved to rule the earth. He targeted the human race with his terrorist activities on the assumption that they would exterminate mutants if they weren't exterminated or at the very least, neutralized, first. Cyclops, today, lives in a world where the human race HAS exhibited, repeatedly, both the desire and the capability to exterminate mutants. And yet, Cyclops doesn't want to exterminate humans or even wage war against them...he is simply fighting to defend mutants, and eliminate those who threaten the mutant race, by any means necessary. His actions may not always be morally justifiable, but I don't think he is remotely a 'villain' in the classic sense, the way Magneto was back in the Silver Age.

  10. #70
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    Cyclops is still a dork, I see.

  11. #71
    New Member aggiefromno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    emma was with them and her powers let her read people's minds. clearly the police were hostile or emma would have said otherwise.
    No need to make this personal. It's a legitimate point to make cause I feel the same way. Scott and his team have an agenda so just because Emma didn't say anything doesn't mean that Scott may not have bent the truth of what was happening. Instead of acting as someone there to protect Eva's basic rights from any supposed violations (Emma doesn't see the future), they act as aggressors and continue their reputation as terrorists. It's hard to argue your innocence or your noble actions when the world sees you as an escaped prisoner that regularly attacks various police and military. If I just discovered I was a mutant and thought I was a freak alone in the world, I don't know if I would want the additional association of being involved with people viewed as terrorists. (And when you burn down a police station to rescue one person instead of just porting them out, you can see why you might be viewed as a terrorist.)

  12. #72
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    Excellent points, bat39.
    You nailed that Magneto/Scott parallel.

    Quote Originally Posted by aggiefromno View Post
    (And when you burn down a police station to rescue one person instead of just porting them out, you can see why you might be viewed as a terrorist.)
    ......yea. It WAS a bit over the top.
    LOTS of drama for a simple stepping disc solution.
    But Scott seems more focused on making a statement with these "rescues"
    Last edited by yanapryde; 11-16-2012 at 06:59 AM.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    I disagree that they didn't have reason to detain her. You have an accident and people get detained all the time to sort out what happened and then released. They had every right to detain her just to figure out what happened. Heck if she actually got released then it might look better for her and mutants but what Cyke did was basically set mutant above human authority and by default is very much setting it out as a them VS us issue even to those who might not hate mutants and if Marvel wants to be honest, it would be great to see some mutant hate literally coming from Cyclops actions where he's creating some of the fear he's accusing people of having.
    The thing is, that majority of people in MU hate mutants. Ironically MU can be accused of fascism with more justifications than Scot being compared to Hitler. You have to keep in mind that this was not the only mutant arrest. I have no doubts that things would have gone much worse if Cyclops didn't intervene. Maybe not by those officers, but rather some of their higher ups. For example just look at another situation in the same book. A mutant had healed a woman and was treated like a devil. Sure it will worsen the fear; however, it saves mutants. The hate for mutants is so big that unless something very drastic happens that changes their mind, then I fear most mutants will be long dead, way before they even remotely understand their powers. Like Cyclops said in AvX consequences - He will keep them alive. That is precisely what he does at least so far.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lwx View Post
    The thing is, that majority of people in MU hate mutants. Ironically MU can be accused of fascism with more justifications than Scot being compared to Hitler. You have to keep in mind that this was not the only mutant arrest. I have no doubts that things would have gone much worse if Cyclops didn't intervene. Maybe not by those officers, but rather some of their higher ups. For example just look at another situation in the same book. A mutant had healed a woman and was treated like a devil. Sure it will worsen the fear; however, it saves mutants. The hate for mutants is so big that unless something very drastic happens that changes their mind, then I fear most mutants will be long dead, way before they even remotely understand their powers. Like Cyclops said in AvX consequences - He will keep them alive. That is precisely what he does at least so far.
    Agreed.

    And a major flaw with the whole 'Cyclops = Hitler' theory...is that Hitler was a fascist who wished to exterminate a minority that posed no real threat to him simply out of his racial theory of superiority. Cyclops on the other hand is a leader of a minority that IS being persecuted and he needs to fight to defend his race from extermination. A LOT of difference between their basic motivation/positioning.

  15. #75
    Veteran Member stussyjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggiefromno View Post
    No need to make this personal. It's a legitimate point to make cause I feel the same way. Scott and his team have an agenda so just because Emma didn't say anything doesn't mean that Scott may not have bent the truth of what was happening. Instead of acting as someone there to protect Eva's basic rights from any supposed violations (Emma doesn't see the future), they act as aggressors and continue their reputation as terrorists. It's hard to argue your innocence or your noble actions when the world sees you as an escaped prisoner that regularly attacks various police and military. If I just discovered I was a mutant and thought I was a freak alone in the world, I don't know if I would want the additional association of being involved with people viewed as terrorists. (And when you burn down a police station to rescue one person instead of just porting them out, you can see why you might be viewed as a terrorist.)
    Remember Bendis said that half the world view Scott as a hero

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