The Avengers DO KILL (in certain situations)

[davew128]

Dane murdered the Supreme Intelligence in Cold Blood as he was cheered on by Ironman and others during operation galactic storm. Wanda committed mutant genocide.

IIRC, Supreme Intelligence not only started an intergalactic war but massacred the better part of his own galaxy simply to restart evolution in his race. The death toll on its hands was immeasurable. Would you have suggested they hand him over to Lilandra for a war crimes trial?

[The Fist of Goa]

And as others noted, no one seems to care that Wanda wasn't in possession of her faculties at the time of House of M, so why does that excuse get trotted out for the berserker.

Because you should stick to the facts and let the delusional keep their delusions.

IF that is in fact the case. Was Wanda really 'not all there' when she depowered mutants? If so, why the hell are x-board posters so angry about it????

[Apathy Lad]

Because you should stick to the facts and let the delusional keep their delusions.

IF that is in fact the case. Was Wanda really 'not all there' when she depowered mutants? If so, why the hell are x-board posters so angry about it????

How is that supposed to work?

"Oops! I slipped on a banana peel and accidentally decimated the mutant race. I'm such a klutz!"

[Luck911]

Wolverine should have never been an avenger. The people who don't want him in the team are right and you are wrong. That's all there is to it.

Wolverine is an Avenger,and the people who don't want him there can go suck a lemon because it is not changing.That is all there is to it.

[CJStriker]

Because you should stick to the facts and let the delusional keep their delusions.

IF that is in fact the case. Was Wanda really 'not all there' when she depowered mutants? If so, why the hell are x-board posters so angry about it????

Cause it is too easy and way to much fun to Hate on a Character then to find a reason to like them again it seems. I do not know if it is the X-Fans all, but some fans just like to stick to the same line, day after day and ignore the Facts that I said in this Thread back on #2:

Indeed, many want to ignore the full Possession part of the CC story line that happen to Wanda, like that recon never Happen. I do not really care about opinions on other X-Characters, interesting takes though, but all I care out is that people get the FACTS on what happen to Wanda.

Questions about Scarlet Witch's power in Children's Crusade & AvX:
http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/owie...-avx/87-83185/


"Will We Finally Get Our Scarlet Witch Back?
The Scarlet Witch has returned in Avengers: The Children's Crusade #5. Dare we hope that she might finally be rehabilitated from her catastrophic character assassination?"
http://www.craveonline.com/comics/re...rens-crusade-5

[darkclaw11]

Wolverine became an x-man because he was a brave, loyal and selfless member of the team who would do anything for his teammates and their objectives. I don't give a crap about who he killed.
He shouldn't be an x-man right now, because he's nothing like that anymore.

The reason that Logan became an X-man was that Xavier needed a weapon or if you like a more experienced fighter among the other still younger members of his team. A weapon to serve his cause. Before Logan, he asked Sabretooth to join. When he denied he went to Logan and he accepted his offer not because of loyalty, but because he found intriguing the idea to leave the life of the Canadian government operative and being a super-hero. At the same time Xavier offered him a possibility of being a better man and helping him to keep in check his killer instict and his berserker rages. For this reason Wolverine's loyalty was to Xavier and his ideals and not to whom is the current leader of the X-men.

[IronMagnus]

Ms. Marvel flew a Skrull into outer space just to watch him die. I need to find scans of that.

[Nomads1]

IIRC, Supreme Intelligence not only started an intergalactic war but massacred the better part of his own galaxy simply to restart evolution in his race. The death toll on its hands was immeasurable. Would you have suggested they hand him over to Lilandra for a war crimes trial?

That was kind of the point of the story. Half of the Avengers wanted to do exactly that. The whole point of the story was exactly to show why Avengers shouldn't kill. Even though the Supreme Inteligence didn't really die, it conned the Avengers (and that was shown right there in the story), that act came back to bite the Avengers in the ass pleanty of times. Dane, Simon and Vision especifically, paid a heavy price for it, and even were shown to regret that decision.

Peace

[StoneGold]

Except that didn't happen in continuity.


Sure, it's the original story, but Lee and Kirby re-did it in Tales of Suspense. Skull wasn't even killing anyone. Although it does kinda show it wasn't so much about morality, more about the Code.

[mikekerrIII]

Wolverine is an Avenger,and the people who don't want him there can go suck a lemon because it is not changing.That is all there is to it.

I agree fully, too bad that some still think the quisling is a X-man though

[The Fist of Goa]

I agree fully, too bad that some still think the quisling is a X-man though

LMAO Quisling. you're a joke.

And he is an X-man, btw. THE X-man. The most popular and widely used one. Ohhhh, it just kills you, doesn't?

oh, the schadenfreude.

[RDMacQ]

I agree fully, too bad that some still think the quisling is a X-man though

"Some" being the operative word.

You can think Wolverine isn't an X-Men all you want. Doesn't make it true. Or rational. Or reasonable. Or realistic.

[GreenComixEnvy]

"Some" being the operative word.

You can think Wolverine isn't an X-Men all you want. Doesn't make it true. Or rational. Or reasonable. Or realistic.

lol, you still expect any of that from him?

[Pat Thomas]

Thanks for those posting about Wolverine -- part of the problem with trying not to read books about him is I can't really point to all the places where he kills people (and of course they all tend to be no-name characters -- which makes them harder to remember -- because with the exception of Avengers Arena, Marvel generally only kills off one "named" character per event).

Obviously killing is a polarizing topic -- look at the debate about capital punishment, after all. Personally, I like my Avengers not to intentionally kill, because that's what they did when I grew up reading them. To me, that's one of the things that makes Wolverine such a horrible fit (though there are certainly others). Cap killed without issue under Brubaker, but back in the day with Gruenwald, it was a big deal when he killed someone.

P.S. I know this thread started because the OP doesn't like me complaining about Wolverine, but man, do I ever prefer this argument to the one about diversity.

How can you use Wolverine as your example and admit that you don't really read stuff he's in? It sounds like you are mostly making assumptions about his personal view on killing without digging deep enough for contributing circumstances. Wolverine is not the same wild killer he was when he first appeared. He fights his savage nature continuously and truly is truly remorseful when he kills, but reaches a point when he loses it. Many of Wolverine's enemies are the same savage type he is, and he is fighting for his survival. The scenes of him attacking Wanda and Hope are not true to his character now. They are just easy ways to create a controversy by the writers.

[motteditor]

How can you use Wolverine as your example and admit that you don't really read stuff he's in? It sounds like you are mostly making assumptions about his personal view on killing without digging deep enough for contributing circumstances. Wolverine is not the same wild killer he was when he first appeared. He fights his savage nature continuously and truly is truly remorseful when he kills, but reaches a point when he loses it. Many of Wolverine's enemies are the same savage type he is, and he is fighting for his survival. The scenes of him attacking Wanda and Hope are not true to his character now. They are just easy ways to create a controversy by the writers.

Because I still have read plenty of stuff with Wolverine in it. I read early Astonishing X-Men, various crossovers (that Messiah Complex story in the xbooks), etc. etc. I don't buy a lot of it, so I can't go back and look at exact specifics, whether he killed someone, simply tried and failed to kill someone, etc. etc. (for example, was he killing SHIELD agents/skrulls in the first storyline in New Avengers? I don't recall). And whether you want to say his attempts to murder Wanda and Hope were out of character, they're still canon. He still runs a death squad. All that, IMO, makes him not Avengers material.