Ultimates #18 Discussion/Spoilers

[Balfro]

Cassie Lang:

First off, since I don't follow 616 I had no idea who she was so her appearance was less than spectacular for me. Same applied for Scott Lang when he was first introduced, HOWEVER even though he was nameless up until Ultimate Avengers vs. New Ultimates he was in the books a few times as part of the Reserves so his involvement was very fluidic and he was well written. I was disappointed that no writers, Hickman included, haven't included him in any stories since Peter Parker died. Now Humphries comes along and introduces someone that I can only assume is Lang's daughter and not only writes her terribly, he doesn't even give her a proper introduction. The worst part is, he could have easily used Scott Lang and it would have at least tickled my interest a little bit more because Scott quickly became a favorite of mine in his short run with the New Ultimates. Then Humphries has her pick up a TANK and use it as a handgun which shot down a SHIELD Helicarrier (both of those things are absolutely absurd) and then she catches it like a football and saves the day. Cassie Lang was a huge flop all around.


Hawkeye:

Humphries has transformed Hawkeye from a semi-leader badass who usually has witty remarks and personality into an All-American goofball. He seemed overly happy when Cap acted like an idiot and rode that air-bike into the battlefield with the American Flag and later near the end when they won as well. I don't know who Humphries was writing but it wasn't Hawkeye. Even Bendis wrote a better Hawkeye in his upcoming issue of Ultimate Spidey.


Captain America (er, President Cap):

The idea behind having Steve Rogers be the new President is interesting but only with a good story to back it up. It seemed to come out of nowhere and the Cap I know would never have accepted the job. Humphries really doesn't understand what Ultimate Captain America is all about and he certainly doesn't come off as a "Man Out of Time" anymore. Also, the fact that he's called "President Cap" is laughable. he called himself "President Steven Rogers" in one panel, and that was about the only time I even smiled during any of his scenes. The world's greatest strategist has been transformed into a moron; riding a ridiculous vehicle out in open battle waving a flag is what the Captain America I know would have slapped someone else for doing.


Iron Man:

Oddly enough, nothing really bad comes to mind about Iron Man except for anything Wasp or War Machine related. The Wasps were a huge let down and look ridiculous, and the War Machine brigade shouldn't even exist let alone have been dubbed as one of Tony's inventions. The Anthony Tumor thing is an interesting idea, but Humphries shat all over it in the finale of the City story and at this point I kind of wish it would just go away unless it be used for a decent story element. I did like the Uni-Beam thing.


Modi:

Awful. He is the last Asgardian and has Mjolnir and instead of becoming some sort of Ultimatized character (I was hoping for Thunderstrike) he becomes Loki-Lite. He didn't even use Mjolnir. Heck, Gregory Stark made better use of Mjolnir in his 20 seconds of wielding it. This was such a waste of great potential it's not even funny. Even the theme of "Loki trying to corrupt and destroy" has been done multiple times now, it doesn't freshen it up by replacing Loki with... Loki. Humphries could have introduced Modi as a sort of anti-hero with father issues that sort of helped the Ultimates in their struggle against a real villain but his abandonment issues with his father would get in the way and compromise their victory. I just pulled that out of my ass and it sounds way better than what we got.


Spider-Woman and Captain Britain:

Did Humphries even read Hickman's run? I would have thought so because they collaborated for a few issues before Hickman left but apparently Humphries just pulled a Loeb and negated any important continuity like having these characters be captured and contained in the Cube. This was a perfect opportunity to have a solo Spider-Woman story, even if for only an issue or two, to show her struggle with the Cube and her escape. But no, she just did and that's how it is. Next thing you know Cap will no longer be President and there will be no explanation as to why...


Hydra:

Interesting idea, but wasted because of Modi's involvement... Er, sorry... HUMPHRIES' involvement. Not having them be some sort of cliche Nazi off-shoot lead by the Red Skull alone was a brilliant idea and felt very Ultimate, but the fact that most of them were just brainwashed Americans felt sort of forced. Like a group of Anti-Americans couldn't exist unless they were forced into it via magic and brainwashing.


Conclusion:

Humphries seems to be overly Patriotic, or he HAD to be because of this arc. Either way, it didn't work. Had Hickman or Millar been writing I think it would have focused very little on America itself and more on the struggle with Hydra and internal character struggles (ie: Cap living up to the pedistal on which he was placed by the American People, Thor torn between family and friends ON HIS OWN rather than because he was brainwashed, Tony starting to realize that Anthony might be something different than what he thought, Monica Chang reluctantly accepting SHIELD Directorship only until her ex-husband was located and placed back into the role, Spider-Woman even opting to refuse to help the American Government because they captured and presumably tortured her, Captain Britain actually making an appearance, etc).

This story was about America, not the Ultimates. Hopefully now that this nonsense is over, Humphries can write a good story that isn't related to patriotism... (Iron Patriot) Awe crap! :(

[pinq09]

i haven`t really considered this before, but now it sort of dawned on me, that humphries seems to exhibit very little knowledge about UU in general. Perhaps, he hasn`t really read any/very little UU before. That would actually explain a lot. e.g. the Cassie/Scott Lang thing.

[Robbie_Jee]

I'm finding all the qualms by more longer term Ultimates fans kinda amusing in that the DWF-UWS storyline brought me aboard to The Ultimates. I LIKED the story, it was great! It was straight forward story telling! It's a story analogizing how we in the real world can only let the modern day robber barons taking over America through tax loop holes, perverting our elections, etc. can win only if we LET them. I LIKED that this storyline didn't take three years to complete. The very POINT of it was it's brevity, I'm surprised so many don't seem to get that.

This is what I thought the story was going to be about. But there wasn't any of that substance. I thought our beloved badass Ultimate Cap was actually going to really turn things around for America when he became President. Not turn congress into dictatorship where massive, nation altering decisions aren't even discussed. Ultimate America is now less democratic than it ever was. America isn't in debt because of "tax loop-holes", like everyone assumes. Within our world-wide economy, profit exists due to the depravity of other nations and other people. It is the design, the very nature of our monetary system. I thought President Cap was going to take down the Federal Reserve and free Congress from its tyranny. I wanted him to destroy the Central Banks of the world and get every human need on the planet sustained under the management of a Resource Based Economy.

[taylor51]

tl;dr quote version lol

Do you intend to follow Hickman's Avengers series, Balfro? It sounds like a lot of what you're hoping for might make its way over to those pages in Marvel Now.

[Fizicks]

Cassie Lang:

First off, since I don't follow 616 I had no idea who she was so her appearance was less than spectacular for me. Same applied for Scott Lang when he was first introduced, HOWEVER even though he was nameless up until Ultimate Avengers vs. New Ultimates he was in the books a few times as part of the Reserves so his involvement was very fluidic and he was well written. I was disappointed that no writers, Hickman included, haven't included him in any stories since Peter Parker died. Now Humphries comes along and introduces someone that I can only assume is Lang's daughter and not only writes her terribly, he doesn't even give her a proper introduction. The worst part is, he could have easily used Scott Lang and it would have at least tickled my interest a little bit more because Scott quickly became a favorite of mine in his short run with the New Ultimates. Then Humphries has her pick up a TANK and use it as a handgun which shot down a SHIELD Helicarrier (both of those things are absolutely absurd) and then she catches it like a football and saves the day. Cassie Lang was a huge flop all around.


Hawkeye:

Humphries has transformed Hawkeye from a semi-leader badass who usually has witty remarks and personality into an All-American goofball. He seemed overly happy when Cap acted like an idiot and rode that air-bike into the battlefield with the American Flag and later near the end when they won as well. I don't know who Humphries was writing but it wasn't Hawkeye. Even Bendis wrote a better Hawkeye in his upcoming issue of Ultimate Spidey.


Captain America (er, President Cap):

The idea behind having Steve Rogers be the new President is interesting but only with a good story to back it up. It seemed to come out of nowhere and the Cap I know would never have accepted the job. Humphries really doesn't understand what Ultimate Captain America is all about and he certainly doesn't come off as a "Man Out of Time" anymore. Also, the fact that he's called "President Cap" is laughable. he called himself "President Steven Rogers" in one panel, and that was about the only time I even smiled during any of his scenes. The world's greatest strategist has been transformed into a moron; riding a ridiculous vehicle out in open battle waving a flag is what the Captain America I know would have slapped someone else for doing.


Iron Man:

Oddly enough, nothing really bad comes to mind about Iron Man except for anything Wasp or War Machine related. The Wasps were a huge let down and look ridiculous, and the War Machine brigade shouldn't even exist let alone have been dubbed as one of Tony's inventions. The Anthony Tumor thing is an interesting idea, but Humphries shat all over it in the finale of the City story and at this point I kind of wish it would just go away unless it be used for a decent story element. I did like the Uni-Beam thing.


Modi:

Awful. He is the last Asgardian and has Mjolnir and instead of becoming some sort of Ultimatized character (I was hoping for Thunderstrike) he becomes Loki-Lite. He didn't even use Mjolnir. Heck, Gregory Stark made better use of Mjolnir in his 20 seconds of wielding it. This was such a waste of great potential it's not even funny. Even the theme of "Loki trying to corrupt and destroy" has been done multiple times now, it doesn't freshen it up by replacing Loki with... Loki. Humphries could have introduced Modi as a sort of anti-hero with father issues that sort of helped the Ultimates in their struggle against a real villain but his abandonment issues with his father would get in the way and compromise their victory. I just pulled that out of my ass and it sounds way better than what we got.


Spider-Woman and Captain Britain:

Did Humphries even read Hickman's run? I would have thought so because they collaborated for a few issues before Hickman left but apparently Humphries just pulled a Loeb and negated any important continuity like having these characters be captured and contained in the Cube. This was a perfect opportunity to have a solo Spider-Woman story, even if for only an issue or two, to show her struggle with the Cube and her escape. But no, she just did and that's how it is. Next thing you know Cap will no longer be President and there will be no explanation as to why...


Hydra:

Interesting idea, but wasted because of Modi's involvement... Er, sorry... HUMPHRIES' involvement. Not having them be some sort of cliche Nazi off-shoot lead by the Red Skull alone was a brilliant idea and felt very Ultimate, but the fact that most of them were just brainwashed Americans felt sort of forced. Like a group of Anti-Americans couldn't exist unless they were forced into it via magic and brainwashing.


Conclusion:

Humphries seems to be overly Patriotic, or he HAD to be because of this arc. Either way, it didn't work. Had Hickman or Millar been writing I think it would have focused very little on America itself and more on the struggle with Hydra and internal character struggles (ie: Cap living up to the pedistal on which he was placed by the American People, Thor torn between family and friends ON HIS OWN rather than because he was brainwashed, Tony starting to realize that Anthony might be something different than what he thought, Monica Chang reluctantly accepting SHIELD Directorship only until her ex-husband was located and placed back into the role, Spider-Woman even opting to refuse to help the American Government because they captured and presumably tortured her, Captain Britain actually making an appearance, etc).

This story was about America, not the Ultimates. Hopefully now that this nonsense is over, Humphries can write a good story that isn't related to patriotism... (Iron Patriot) Awe crap! :(

Spot on. I wish Humphries would read this.

Humphries could have introduced Modi as a sort of anti-hero with father issues that sort of helped the Ultimates in their struggle against a real villain but his abandonment issues with his father would get in the way and compromise their victory. I just pulled that out of my ass and it sounds way better than what we got.

HA that just made my day!

[Plawsky]

Cassie Lang:

First off, since I don't follow 616 I had no idea who she was so her appearance was less than spectacular for me. Same applied for Scott Lang when he was first introduced, HOWEVER even though he was nameless up until Ultimate Avengers vs. New Ultimates he was in the books a few times as part of the Reserves so his involvement was very fluidic and he was well written. I was disappointed that no writers, Hickman included, haven't included him in any stories since Peter Parker died. Now Humphries comes along and introduces someone that I can only assume is Lang's daughter and not only writes her terribly, he doesn't even give her a proper introduction. The worst part is, he could have easily used Scott Lang and it would have at least tickled my interest a little bit more because Scott quickly became a favorite of mine in his short run with the New Ultimates. Then Humphries has her pick up a TANK and use it as a handgun which shot down a SHIELD Helicarrier (both of those things are absolutely absurd) and then she catches it like a football and saves the day. Cassie Lang was a huge flop all around.

This is still probably my biggest complaint about this art. Sure, the writing was not great, even bad at times. And the plots were super rushed. But the one thing that really bothers me is the introduction - or lack thereof - of Cassie Lang. I get that things go on in the background of SHIELD, so there's more members and heroes than we even know. The Reserves, Black Ops, etc. But even though the Ultimates might know about it, the readers still need to be introduced. Look at how other established but unknown members were introduced to us:

Hawkeye and Black Widow: They had been working black ops for a while, but we're still given an introduction to what they do. They had a whole big action scene to establish who they are.
Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver: We already knew them as Brotherhood members, but they had also been working black ops since sometime after UXM #1/2 (presumably). We get as simple of an introduction to their new status quo as possible by literally seeing them introduced to the rest of the team.
Gregory Stark: Similar to the others, he'd been working black ops for years. He gets plenty of introduction throughout the first Avengers arc.
The rest of the Avengers: At the very least, we meet them briefly on a tour through the team.
The Reserves: Much of the first annual is dedicated to meeting the Reserves and learning what their deal is.

And now, with Cassie, we just see her in the middle of a big fight. We're obviously supposed to assume she's important, because she - for some unknown reason - is dressed differently from the rest of the Giant Men. But we have no idea why that is. It's even worse than when Valkyrie was thrown into the Ultimates, because we at least knew who Valkyrie was. Granted, we had no idea HOW or WHY she was there, but the "who" was not an issue then.

[rpriske]

This issue was the nail in the coffin for me. The storyline started out as interesting but just go worse and worse. (The horrible art didn't help.)

Dropped. It looks like once again the only Ultimate book worth reading is Spider-Man.

[Chaos_Alfa]

This issue was the nail in the coffin for me. The storyline started out as interesting but just go worse and worse. (The horrible art didn't help.)

Dropped. It looks like once again the only Ultimate book worth reading is Spider-Man.

And Ultimate X-Men.

With Brian Wood as the writer it become very good.

[Codah]

This issue was the nail in the coffin for me. The storyline started out as interesting but just go worse and worse. (The horrible art didn't help.)

Dropped. It looks like once again the only Ultimate book worth reading is Spider-Man.

X-Men is as good as any Ultimate Comic has ever been.

[Fizicks]

Dropped.

Agreed.

It looks like once again the only Ultimate book worth reading is Spider-Man.

Disagreed.

If there's one Ultimate book that's currently worth reading, it's X-men.
Spider-Man is good too but still streets behind.
Ultimates is several light-years behind.