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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Hedge Coke View Post
    Well, that's a bit open to debate, isn't it? For all we know, it was Samael throwing all those fits. Or, you know, someone made it up.

    But, if we posit one's real, and fairly posit the other to be real (for the sake of argument), I know which one is less likely to smite me.
    Well, wouldn't it feel better to be smitten by someone who understood you better than you understood yourself, rather than a random stranger who did not know you? It all depends on your exercise of your free will to obey or disobey, and if you did something to warrant being smitten; God has the one caveat, however, to allow you ample opportunity to repent, where your transgression will than be forgiven.

    Sure, the information could be incomplete and a bit inaccurate (e.g. because the information was incomplete or the information could not be comprehended to the same level of clarity as say someone in 1993), but not for the malicious reasons associated with someone making something up to generate a loyal following.
    Last edited by dshipp17; 11-16-2012 at 12:05 PM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0NIN View Post
    How the hell does that work? So Harry Houdini, Chris Angel, David Copperfield and the like are really true to life Wizards with magic powers? Just because they say they are? Don't be ridiculous.

    Just because there was a person named Jesus doesn't mean he was God.



    But not more recent than Muhammad? So I guess based on your theory of the more recent evidence...Jesus was NOT in fact God, and therefore was vastly less powerful than Superman. Snapper Car might've taken him.



    See the above.



    Yes he is but apparently you didn't get the fact that I was postulating that since Superman is an ever evolving character he can evolve into becoming God. There is no ability to fail against. Superman and God are the same. He's becomes so omnipresent and powerful that he creates himself in the future so he could create the universe at the same time he creates time space etc.etc.
    Well, for starters, because they do their thing solely for profit and fame, and have admitted that deception is involved, there's no real comparison. Jesus did His thing to save the world and His final goal was actually to present His works and die, despite being innocent in every way possible, to die for the guilty; He than wanted to demonstrate His ability to rise from the dead.

    God preexisted Superman by a wide margin, so again, God's omnipresence trumps. It would be necessary to creep up on God without His knowledge and that's not possible if God is omnipresent and preexisted Superman; thus, evolving to his power would be a very flimsy way to go.
    Last edited by dshipp17; 11-16-2012 at 12:15 PM.

  3. #108
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    That's not how the martyrdom took place. The first group of people martyred was Jesus' disciples, and they had very close contact with Jesus. Part of the people martyred were people who saw Jesus both before and just after his resurrection.
    Interesting to note you had to shift from a generalised 'thousands' to, now, 'the first group'.

    The first group didn't go around proclaiming Jesus (as) to be 'God', had they done so they never would have been able to set foot in the Temple or any synagogue.

    Jesus's disciples had contact with Paul the Apostle, formally, Saul of Tarsus.
    Rather than de-railing the thread by pointing out how Saul's teachings were contrary to Jesus' (as), I'll leave this with:

    'To you, your belief(s); to me, mine'.

  4. #109
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    Superman dosen't have priests doing horrible things to altar boys. Superman wins.

  5. #110
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymeric View Post
    Superman dosen't have priests doing horrible things to altar boys. Superman wins.
    ...that we know of.

    After the Church of Superman was divided when he died and various imposters claimed to be him (Return), and then further doubt was placed when the body was found in the tomb (Dead Again), it's likely there are various 'churches' claiming ties to him...and...some people taking advantage of that...

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    Interesting to note you had to shift from a generalised 'thousands' to, now, 'the first group'.

    The first group didn't go around proclaiming Jesus (as) to be 'God', had they done so they never would have been able to set foot in the Temple or any synagogue.



    Rather than de-railing the thread by pointing out how Saul's teachings were contrary to Jesus' (as), I'll leave this with:

    'To you, your belief(s); to me, mine'.
    What I meant to imply was that those few, who had actual contact with Jesus, were the source for the thousands within a few years of Jesus' crucifixion who a belief in His existence to than face martyrdom because of Jesus' existence. It's like the media of the time that established the belief. Thus, it would be like you deciding to face martyrdom to established that John F Kennedy actually existed, even though he was probably assassination long before you were born. So, actually, I didn't contradict myself. And the first group did go around proclaiming Jesus was God; their executions were delayed for fear of starting a revolt; it was this period of warning and delay that provided the opportunity for the message to than go viral; but, Stephan was quickly executed, so that supported their speculation of a possible revolt, should they have move on against the disciples and the rest of the strong believers. Saul's teachings make up the bulk of the New Testament, while the Gospels make up most of the rest.
    Last edited by dshipp17; 11-16-2012 at 02:43 PM.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    Well, for starters, because they do their thing solely for profit and fame, and have admitted that deception is involved, there's no real comparison. Jesus did His thing to save the world and His final goal was actually to present His works and die, despite being innocent in every way possible, to die for the guilty; He than wanted to demonstrate His ability to rise from the dead.
    None of this makes Jesus God, y'know. And a lot of this is borrowed myth, anyway. Jesus' story wouldn't be the first of a metahuman performing fancy feats and rising from the dead and he certainly wouldn't be the last.
    Regardless, Jesus never said he was God, and nowhere in the original gospel (that of Mark) was Jesus described as being God. Equating Christ with God is dogma the Catholic Church concocted.
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

    Oscar Wilde

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    What I meant to imply was that those few, who had actual contact with Jesus, were the source for the thousands within a few years of Jesus' crucifixion who a belief in His existence to than face martyrdom because of Jesus' existence.
    Those few were uneducated fisherman who couldn't read or write. How do you know they didn't inflate Jesus' story to mythical proportions?
    We're not even sure the writers of the gospels had any contact with Jesus. Actually, we're quite sure Mark, Luke, and John didn't personally know Jesus.

    It's like the media of the time that established the belief. Thus, it would be like you deciding to face martyrdom to established that John F Kennedy actually existed, even though he was probably assassination long before you were born.
    That's a poor analogy. I can go online and find papers printed in London and Ireland that covered the assassination of JFK. There are people living today who were there. The whole world took note of it, even if they didn't know who JFK was. An American President had been assassinated. Who would face martyrdom over that?

    And the first group did go around proclaiming Jesus was God
    Jesus never said he was God. So, why would they say he was God?
    The son of God, yes, but God himself, no. No devout Jew would say that, and they were all still Jews through and through.
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

    Oscar Wilde

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    God did not turn Lot's family member into a pillar of salt because she became nostalgic. God already had the right to end human existence at the point of Adam and Eve,
    There were no such people, but whatever, I'll humor you.
    All of this is his fault anyway. If he's omnipotent and omniscient why didn't he see any of this coming? Why didn't he take not of the outcome and say, "It ain't worth the headache"?
    Is all this just some game to him because he's suffering from cosmic boredom? If he didn't see any of this coming (and Genesis indicates that he didn't given his regrets) than you can't refer to God as "omniscient". If he did see all this coming then he's horribly abusive and criminally negligent.

    God allowed all of the examples you cite to exercise their free will, including Noah, but they each chose another course contrary to God
    That's not free will.

    due to the influence of another malevolent force
    Which malevolent force would that be, and why did God create it?

    although Noah must have been an exception in some respects and God wanted to allow the human race to live so that Jesus could atone for Adams mistake at a future time.
    "Yes, let them live. I'll take my frustrations out on some other people's poor kid."

    Not being the creator of existence in general or human existence in specific, Superman lacks these key abilities.
    Not according to All-Star Superman #11.

    One major flaw in your citings is you do not account for the influence of the malevolent force and the death and destruction he causes or instigates into taking place
    Satan didn't do anything God didn't allow.
    And mind you, before the story of Job was concocted, Satan wasn't blamed for things going bad in a person's life. It was the individual who sinned that bore God's wrath on his head. Satan never came into the equation.
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

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  10. #115

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    Jesus came first, so he is better. Well, isn't that the only thing that gives Superman any relevance? :)

  11. #116
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    Nah, what gives Superman relevance is that he's a powerful idea. More so than Jesus in today's secular world.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    Jesus came first, so he is better. Well, isn't that the only thing that gives Superman any relevance? :)
    Hercules came before Jesus so I guess that makes him better.

    Son of god and human woman: check
    Hero of the people: check
    Fantastic feats: check
    Died at the will of a god: check
    Raised to eternal life in heaven: check

    Well, don't that beat all?
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

    Oscar Wilde

  13. #118
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainzo View Post
    I love internet.
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye León (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

  14. #119

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    Superman is already fading and he's not even lasted a century, various mythologies have endured longer than that. This thread is more than ridiculous, and whilst it's fun to bash the bible thumpers there's not any real debate on the impact both characters have had on their societies. This thread is very weak :(

  15. #120
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    ...that we know of.

    After the Church of Superman was divided when he died and various imposters claimed to be him (Return), and then further doubt was placed when the body was found in the tomb (Dead Again), it's likely there are various 'churches' claiming ties to him...and...some people taking advantage of that...
    It comes with the territory. He said it shimself in Superman #13. Half the world thinks he's their savior, the other half that he's evil. In that sense, he's seen as a god, so among the half that think he's the savior, it is likely that some churches might have formed.
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye León (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

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