Jesus > Superman

[R0NIN]

You came into the thread begging people to stop talking about the subject because you supposedly want an oasis away from Jesus talk. You hope we'll oblige, regardless of whatever enjoyment we might get out of the discussion as is, despite the fact that a small exercise in willpower on your part would prevent you from seeing anything you don't want to see.

And yet.

And yet as soon as someone comes on to post a bunch of pro-Jesus rhetoric, it's all sunshine and moonbeams and slaps on the back, let's share some body o' christ cookies and blood o' christ sangria.
So it's not that you don't want discussion of Jesus here. You're apparently happy to have it discussed so long as it's discussed in the way YOU want it to be, and only that way.

That's just INCREDIBLY lame, man.

Reply of the week right there.

[dancj]

Let's be honest though, people wouldn't cry about sensitivity if this was any other religion.

In reality I think there would be more complaints - especially in this post-911 world. Christianity is (rightly IMO) generally considered fair game for ridicule, but other religions (wrongly IMO) aren't. As far as I'm concerned all religions and all subjects should be open to ridicule.

Clearly, Jesus being God, means that He could accomplish everything Superman could

Okay, if we go into the whole "Jesus is God" thing then it gets a whole lot easier.

God will be the one who back in the bible turns a woman into salt for being nostalgic and wipes out the entire population of the planet - with the exception of Noah and his family plus a bunch of animals - and even in the current day seems to either cause or allow tsunamis and the like to wipe out thousands of people at a time.

Superman > Lex Luthor > God

[dshipp17]

Okay, if we go into the whole "Jesus is God" thing then it gets a whole lot easier.

God will be the one who back in the bible turns a woman into salt for being nostalgic and wipes out the entire population of the planet - with the exception of Noah and his family plus a bunch of animals - and even in the current day seems to either cause or allow tsunamis and the like to wipe out thousands of people at a time.

Superman > Lex Luthor > God

God did not turn Lot's family member into a pillar of salt because she became nostalgic. God already had the right to end human existence at the point of Adam and Eve, but chose to allow the human race to persist due to his nature of mercy; Noah was left alive due to key attributes that the others lacked.

Thus, rather than end human existence outright, God sent His son, Jesus, to atone for and take the place of Adam's mistake, dying in his place, but still having the ability to conquer death.

God allowed all of the examples you cite to exercise their free will, including Noah, but they each chose another course contrary to God due to the influence of another malevolent force, although Noah must have been an exception in some respects and God wanted to allow the human race to live so that Jesus could atone for Adams mistake at a future time.

Lex Luthor is a peer human being, so he cannot possibly have the same rights as God to judge and sentence humans. While Luthor murders, God killed, in the physical sense, but God is in control of both life and death; Luthor is not. Not being the creator of existence in general or human existence in specific, Superman lacks these key abilities.

One major flaw in your citings is you do not account for the influence of the malevolent force and the death and destruction he causes or instigates into taking place (take a look through the Book of Job for further illustration); fortunately, God, the benevolent force, is ultimately in charge of life and death.

[dshipp17]

I assume the irony of you stating that Jesus was a real life historical figure, and therefore shouldn't be compared to a fictional character like Superman, while in the next sentence proclaiming that Jesus is also fictional (god) is lost on you?

Superman develops powers all the time. For all you know at the end of his career he becomes so powerful that he goes back in time and creates the universe and has a son with a virgin girl Mary.

No, my claim is actually the opposite; since Jesus is real, God is real. Because the information surrounding Jesus was more recent than the information concerning God in the Old Testament of the Bible, and has more material surrounding it that people have set out to calling evidence, because they set out to want to believe that material is more genuine than previous material, it's the more logical course to establish Jesus' existence to establish the existence of God, as accounted for the the Old Testament.

But God is omnipresent, so that ability would still fail against God.

[dshipp17]

That is simply not true. There is no contemporary of Jesus that met him and writes of him. He is only mentioned after his death. The most famous person that writes of him near his time of death, which is by Josephus that wrote much after Jesus' supposed death, did not write anything in reality but words attributed to him in a primitive attempt to prove Christ were added later.

That's simply one type of evidence in the face of many other types of evidence used to establish peoples' existence at that period of time. And you actually believe that thousands of people accepted martyrdom for something that they actually knew was false?

[nightrider]

Superman is a Jesus allegory.
Whether people believe in Christianity and that Jesus Christ is a messiah, has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being real or not. It was written and recorded about the existence of Jesus Christ. So there isn't a who is better than who contest because Jesus Christ was a real person and Superman is fictional.

The OP shouldn't have started the thread because the link in which he provided has nothing to do with Superman. Some people do read and enjoy Superman because he is a Jesus allegory and that has nothing to do with liking whichever more or that whichever is better.

[T Hedge Coke]

God already had the right to end human existence

Well, that's a bit open to debate, isn't it? For all we know, it was Samael throwing all those fits. Or, you know, someone made it up.

But, if we posit one's real, and fairly posit the other to be real (for the sake of argument), I know which one is less likely to smite me.

[adkal]

God already had the right to end human existence at the point of Adam and Eve, but chose to allow the human race to persist due to his nature of mercy;

In light of God saying that the creation of Man was 'good' (Genesis) and that He's All-Knowing...are you sure you want to stand by what you said here?

Thus, rather than end human existence outright, God sent His son, Jesus, to atone for and take the place of Adam's mistake, dying in his place, but still having the ability to conquer death.

Because God's powerless to just forgive? His 'mercy' doesn't 'work' that way, that He actually 'needed' a blood sacrifice?


You really should be careful with the 'generalised' approach you seem to have - granted, this forum isn't exactly the best place for this kind of discourse, but you should still be careful.

[adkal]

That's simply one type of evidence in the face of many other types of evidence used to establish peoples' existence at that period of time. And you actually believe that thousands of people accepted martyrdom for something that they actually knew was false?

No, that 'thousands of people accepted martyrdom for something that they didn't know was actually false', that they had no means of verifying and, instead, relied on those telling them about it to be honest.

[Auguste Dupin]

No, my claim is actually the opposite; since Jesus is real, God is real. Because the information surrounding Jesus was more recent than the information concerning God in the Old Testament of the Bible, and has more material surrounding it that people have set out to calling evidence, because they set out to want to believe that material is more genuine than previous material, it's the more logical course to establish Jesus' existence to establish the existence of God, as accounted for the the Old Testament.

But God is omnipresent, so that ability would still fail against God.

So, by that account, I suppose Muhammad really was God's prophet by virtue of being chosen by the archangel Gabriel, making Islam the one true religion.
He's the most recent after all, and he takes Jesus into account.

[adkal]

Superman is a Jesus allegory.

Superman, in some approaches, became a (Christian)-Jesus allegory, he didn't start as one.

Whether people believe in Christianity and that Jesus Christ is a messiah,

One can believe in Jesus (as) being the Messiah without accepting Christianity

The OP shouldn't have started the thread because the link in which he provided has nothing to do with Superman. Some people do read and enjoy Superman because he is a Jesus allegory and that has nothing to do with liking whichever more or that whichever is better.

Agreed.

[R0NIN]

No, my claim is actually the opposite; since Jesus is real, God is real.

How the hell does that work? So Harry Houdini, Chris Angel, David Copperfield and the like are really true to life Wizards with magic powers? Just because they say they are? Don't be ridiculous.

Just because there was a person named Jesus doesn't mean he was God.

Because the information surrounding Jesus was more recent than the information concerning God in the Old Testament of the Bible,

But not more recent than Muhammad? So I guess based on your theory of the more recent evidence...Jesus was NOT in fact God, and therefore was vastly less powerful than Superman. Snapper Car might've taken him.

and has more material surrounding it that people have set out to calling evidence, because they set out to want to believe that material is more genuine than previous material, it's the more logical course to establish Jesus' existence to establish the existence of God, as accounted for the the Old Testament.

See the above.

But God is omnipresent, so that ability would still fail against God.

Yes he is but apparently you didn't get the fact that I was postulating that since Superman is an ever evolving character he can evolve into becoming God. There is no ability to fail against. Superman and God are the same. He's becomes so omnipresent and powerful that he creates himself in the future so he could create the universe at the same time he creates time space etc.etc.

[MFitzH2O]

This may bee 'silly' because it SHOULD have been mentioned somewhere in here by a poster with an iota of intellect: It's Moses, people. Moses.

[Thor-Ul]

Superman is a Jesus allegory.
Whether people believe in Christianity and that Jesus Christ is a messiah, has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being real or not. It was written and recorded about the existence of Jesus Christ. So there isn't a who is better than who contest because Jesus Christ was a real person and Superman is fictional.

The OP shouldn't have started the thread because the link in which he provided has nothing to do with Superman. Some people do read and enjoy Superman because he is a Jesus allegory and that has nothing to do with liking whichever more or that whichever is better.

I think Moses is a more closed figure to Superman than Jesus: both were saved from death in a "floating cradle". Anyway the myth of the messiah always has been present n human cultures. Eventually will fade, as all others useless believes.

[ChrisIII]

I think ET actually is closer to Jesus as far as fictional aliens go. He comes to Earth, heals people, dies in part due to human shortsightedness, comes back to life, appears in white robes and has a light-up heart (as seen in Jesus artwork). Then he ascends at the end.

BTW wasn't there a Superman run a few years ago which basically had Superman deal with "The Rapture" (The event in which some ascend so they don't have to deal with the apocalypse, as popularized in the Left Behind novels).