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  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
    I think Kyle getting replaced by John Stewart had more to do with the Justice League cartoon. John Stewart was, by that point, a more familiar face with new readers and he'd also been around by about 20 years longer. On a sidenote: people went nuts when John Stewart was chosen over Hal Jordan for the show... but that ended up working out, anyways.Hypothetically: I think Kyle and John switching up would've had the same results for Barry and Wally if they'd been under the same position for the show and the books.I'm asian -- I don't give a crap about seeing Sunfire on the Avengers, and I don't even care about Ryan Choi on the Justice League. A race shouldn't determine if a character is appealing... they could be weak, insecure, angry, immature, arrogant, rude, republican, democratic, racist, heartless, gutless, brainless, spineless, etc. Do you know what I thought when Sunfire got added to the roster? It had nothing to do with his racial diversity, I thought, "Wow, he added one of the biggest jerks in the comic book world to his roster."
    Xactly, great post
    Support titles that need supporting. Quit buying, reading and complaining about comics you don't enjoy.

  2. #437
    True Superior Spider-Man Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    listen up, weird franchise loyalists: your days are finished
    tigerkaya, are you going to refuse buying avengers as well, because cannonball and sunspot are team members?
    beast as an avenger is ok with you?
    don't answer these questions, they're rhetorical and nonsensical.
    these franchises have never been divided.
    Gotta agree with the statement that they really never have been divided. I mean there are connections to X-Men all over the place within the Avengers. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are both Avengers but they originated in the X-books and Carol has a history with the X-Men, having lost her powers because of Rogue and even lived with the X-Men for a time, getting her powers back because of her time with them. Heck Cap even fought along side both Wolverine and Namor during WWII. I find that Uncanny Avengers is the natural progression for the relationship of the Avengers and X-Men and in a world where mutants are just coming back from the brink, it's definitely something good for them to have.
    Holding out for a Peter/Miles team up.

  3. #438
    Senior Member NamorsTrident's Avatar
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    Right when I thought I might drop this book they add on some amazing players to the mix.

    Not sure if this has been posted yet but I really wish Marvel would have used this look for Sunfire:



    His original look is "ok" but the costume he used in X-Men Legends II was awesome.

  4. #439
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamorsTrident View Post
    His original look is "ok" but the costume he used in X-Men Legends II was awesome.
    I'd really prefer the "rising sun" suit never be seen again, especially that simply horrible mask. Of all his costumes, I liked the one with the modern sode (shoulder armour) best.

    And I couldn't agree more, direction9. Very well said. The only "middle fingers" this X-Fan sees are the franchise loyalists.
    Last edited by The Black Guardian; 11-18-2012 at 08:23 AM.
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  5. #440
    Senior Member motteditor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    listen up, weird franchise loyalists: your days are finished
    tigerkaya, are you going to refuse buying avengers as well, because cannonball and sunspot are team members?
    beast as an avenger is ok with you?
    don't answer these questions, they're rhetorical and nonsensical.
    these franchises have never been divided.
    I agree and disagree. I think the franchises *have* been divided. I mean, for a good chunk of time, the xbooks were largely set off by themselves, which is why the Avengers didn't help during Inferno, the Siege Perilous story, etc. etc. It was a big deal when they linked up, such as in Blood Ties. Granted, that's also part of what all the books need to have, otherwise every major storyline would be the MU vs. the villain. Ultron's certainly a big enough threat that the X-Men should have been involved when he destroyed that country under Busiek, but the books need to stand on their own.

    I agree a bit with Tigerkaya that having characters so firmly associated with one franchise as part of another feels odd. I love Cannonball, but I don't know that he's ever really going to feel like an Avenger (I'm less thrilled about Sunspot, but whatever). Beast worked because 30 years ago when he joined the Avengers, he wasn't as identified with the xbooks as some of these characters are now. Whereas IMO Wolverine's always going to be associated first with the X-Men, which is part of why he shouldn't be an Avenger. He doesn't *feel* like an Avenger (same with Storm). The same is true in reverse. If the X-Men suddenly invited Hawkeye to join, he wouldn't ever feel like an X-Man.

    Now, all that said, I think Uncanny Avengers brilliantly gets around that. It's a deliberate, in-continuity gestalt of the two teams. Much as I loathe Wolverine and don't want to have to read about him on this book, I don't really object to his presence in the way I do to him being on the main Avengers squad. This is a book where I think Hawkeye and Hank Pym could be teamed up with Nightcrawler and Kitty Pryde and it would work (albeit certainly in sort of an Odd Couple way). This is the book where both sides merge.

    And I think the premise does make sense. After AvX, Cap finally said "OK, I thought thing were going to get better, but clearly more must be done. The anti-mutant attitude led to someone I respect as much as Cyclops doing what he did, so clearly I need to take a bigger stand to fight this." And so he was. IMO (at the risk of getting political), it's like he went from a more conservative view point on the situation (the mutants are fully capable of handling their business) to a more liberal one (the mutants need help handling this situation so I need to lend a hand).

  6. #441
    Star Blazer Will.S's Avatar
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    The timing of this press conference is a bit odd, I thought they were going to hold back on the remaining members for a while longer until the books themselves show the expansion of the cast but given how far away that might be now and with the delays annoying people I guess it was the right thing to do to keep the buzz going on the book.

    Tom and Axel seem pretty confident that the book will sell well regardless of delays similar to Astonishing X-Men and Children's Crusade so it'll be interesting if it continues to sell as well while the other more timely Avengers books come out but I'm betting that it'll take a hit after Hickman's Avengers books are out.

  7. #442
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    Really glad they used Sunfire's original costume. It's classic. As far as hating the mask, I love it, and apparently Darryl Banks liked it too. He modelled Kyle Rayner's first mask after it when the character first appeared.

  8. #443
    Hard-Headed Ingonyama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will.S View Post
    The timing of this press conference is a bit odd, I thought they were going to hold back on the remaining members for a while longer until the books themselves show the expansion of the cast but given how far away that might be now with the delays annoying people I guess it was the right thing to do to keep the buzz going on the book.
    I agree, probably the delays caused this announcement to be made in order to sustain interest. Apparently they've done just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will.S View Post
    Tom and Axel seem pretty confident that the book will sell well regardless of delays similar to Astonishing X-Men and Children's Crusade so it'll be interesting if it continues to sell as well while the other more timely Avengers books come out but I'm betting that it'll take a hit after Hickman's Avengers books are out.
    To be fair, CC and Whedon's Astonishing are two of my favorite story arcs I've ever read. So I'll put up with an ungodly wait if it gives me a good story at the end of it.

    Anyway, re: the new character announcements:

    - I like Wasp OK, though out of all the Marvel females, she and BW probably register least on my radar. I wasn't even aware she was alive again.

    - Wonder Man used to be a big-time favorite of mine, but now I'm very confused as to why he's included. Is it just for romantic tension with Wanda? Do they actually think he fulfills a unique role on the team with Thor and Havok as powerhouse and blaster, respectively? It can't be because they think he's good PR...Either way, at least he'll keep the book interesting.

    - Sunfire: Out of all the characters they could have chosen from the X-Men universe, they pick the one character who was hardly an X-Man at all. I feel like my fandom is being sorely misrepresented in this supposed crossover. And again, why? I don't DISlike Sunfire, but I feel there could have been so many better choices out there...a telepath, for example, to balance out the fact that the Avengers have had exactly TWO in their history (that I know of). Why not Rachel Grey, or Karma if you want to diversify?
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  9. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will.S View Post
    The timing of this press conference is a bit odd, I thought they were going to hold back on the remaining members for a while longer until the books themselves show the expansion of the cast but given how far away that might be now and with the delays annoying people I guess it was the right thing to do to keep the buzz going on the book.

    Maybe, but the cast would have been revealed when the solicits were released the following day. Was that designed to drum up interest? I'm not entirely convinced but I can't rule it out either.

  10. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by motteditor View Post
    Beast worked because 30 years ago when he joined the Avengers, he wasn't as identified with the xbooks as some of these characters are now. Whereas IMO Wolverine's always going to be associated first with the X-Men, which is part of why he shouldn't be an Avenger. He doesn't *feel* like an Avenger (same with Storm). The same is true in reverse. If the X-Men suddenly invited Hawkeye to join, he wouldn't ever feel like an X-Man.
    The mental gymnastics you always engage in are hilarious to see. Beast was a founding X-Men member. Hawkeye isn't a mutant. Marvel is a shared universe. If there's a legit reason for a Marvel character to do something (and it's written strongly) there's no reason it can't happen.

    The crux is you have an notion of what and who the Avengers are and it doesn't jibe with the current roster and direction. Bottom line. The conceit that you seemingly know better than Marvel is comedy. Don't read it then. Sheesh.

  11. #446
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrongGuy View Post
    Hawkeye isn't a mutant.
    Which is why I like this team more than I think I've liked X-men in a long time.

    It always struck me as odd that a group who've decided to preach equality and peaceful co-existence would actively practice segregation.

    The X-men should have had Captain America on the team from the get go if they were at all serious about thier 'mission'.
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  12. #447
    Senior Member motteditor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrongGuy View Post
    The mental gymnastics you always engage in are hilarious to see. Beast was a founding X-Men member. Hawkeye isn't a mutant. Marvel is a shared universe. If there's a legit reason for a Marvel character to do something (and it's written strongly) there's no reason it can't happen.
    Wait, so you didmiss Hawkeye as an X-Man because he's not a mutant, and then a breath later say if there's a legit reason for a Marvel character to do something, there's no reason it can't happen. So which is it? You're basically agreeing with my point. You say Hawkeye wouldn't fit right as an X-Man because he's not a mutant. I say certain characters don't fit right with the Avengers. And further, I do it without insulting people.

    And, yes, Beast was a founding X-Man, but that was a book that failed; that's why we got the relaunch and Wolverine. Beast wasn't being used when he joined the Avengers, unlike Wolverine, who's in nearly a half-dozen X-titles.

  13. #448
    Star Blazer Will.S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingonyama View Post
    To be fair, CC and Whedon's Astonishing are two of my favorite story arcs I've ever read. So I'll put up with an ungodly wait if it gives me a good story at the end of it.
    Well the only thing that puzzles me is why they're so much more lenient on this title's shipping than other books given that they made this their flagship post AvX book and how much of a top seller it was in it's first month. I suppose they're confident that the other Avengers books will keep people satisfied in between Uncanny Avengers releases and that the overall cumulative sales of the Avengers books will remain high but UA just seems a bit counter to their double shipping/multi-artist strategy and could mean potentially less sales with the delays.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scream View Post
    Maybe, but the cast would have been revealed when the solicits were released the following day. Was that designed to drum up interest? I'm not entirely convinced but I can't rule it out either.
    I wasn't aware that the solicits were going to be released the next day. From what I see it looks like they wanted to expand upon the solicit so as to clear things up line up wise as well as retain a little more buzz on the books since they didn't address the delays prior to the conference.

  14. #449
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    hawkeye wouldn't work as an x-man bc IIRC he has a problem with mutants.

  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    Which is why I like this team more than I think I've liked X-men in a long time.

    It always struck me as odd that a group who've decided equality and peaceful co-existence would actively practice segregation.

    The X-men should have had Captain America on the team from the get go if they were at all serious about thier 'mission'.
    Great point. Especially considering that any separation was due to editorial mandate and direction rather than any in-story reason for them not to team up.

    Kingpin was a Spider-Man villain before being established as a great Daredevil villain. Scarlett Witch/Quicksilver started out in X-Men before Avengers. Also, every decade had a particular "flavor" or iteration of the X-Men and Avenger franchise (Leather coat Avengers everyone?). To say who shouldn't or not be on an X-Men or Avengers team simply because you grew up knowing and loving a particular team roster is ludicrous.

    SIDE NOTE: And the thing is, I get it. If I was a huge Scarlet Witch fan (I think she's always been uninspiring and lame with an wholly undefined powerset personally) I'd be ticked about what she's been through in the past decade. Which is why this book is interesting, not to "fix" her, but to see what happens to her now.

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