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  1. #151
    Dark Knight Detective DarkKnghtJared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legato View Post
    Which is exactly why DC is so hesitant in going one way or the other(Bi/Gay) because of the fear that they'd lose readers as result. Then, gong back, theres the outcry of people accusing of DC doing it just for the sake of increasing sales instead of developing her character. If making a character gay/bi was so simple then they could have done the same with either Batman or Superman but it's not that simple because DC doesn't want to risk losing readers so not making Diana gay/bi is pretty much DC's way of playing it safe.
    The thing is, I think that cries of "they're just doing it to increase sales" would eventually quiet down if the character is good. Look at Batwoman back when she was introduced in 52. DC hyped that up but good when she was first introduced, and she didn't have that connection to the GLBT community that Diana would have, which caused a fair amount of blowback and controversy. But, after a solid supporting role in 52 and a spectacular run on Detective, not only is this lesbian Batwoman beloved, she has her own on-going from it.

    So Diana suddenly getting a girlfriend would probably get some controversy--fanboys losing their crap, FOX News calling it the End of Heterosexuality and all that nonsense--but if the story is good and it gets enough fan support after the release, it would probably work and stick to the character.

  2. #152
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    The thing is, I think that cries of "they're just doing it to increase sales" would eventually quiet down if the character is good. Look at Batwoman back when she was introduced in 52. DC hyped that up but good when she was first introduced, and she didn't have that connection to the GLBT community that Diana would have, which caused a fair amount of blowback and controversy. But, after a solid supporting role in 52 and a spectacular run on Detective, not only is this lesbian Batwoman beloved, she has her own on-going from it.

    So Diana suddenly getting a girlfriend would probably get some controversy--fanboys losing their crap, FOX News calling it the End of Heterosexuality and all that nonsense--but if the story is good and it gets enough fan support after the release, it would probably work and stick to the character.
    See, I don't think it would pass.

    I think that Wonder Woman is an icon - people wear the shirts and carry the wallets and tote bags without having a clue, and if it were in the papers that she's bi? I think there would be an uproar and WB and DC don't want to deal with it.

  3. #153
    Best In The World Legato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    See, I don't think it would pass.

    I think that Wonder Woman is an icon - people wear the shirts and carry the wallets and tote bags without having a clue, and if it were in the papers that she's bi? I think there would be an uproar and WB and DC don't want to deal with it.
    This. I'm sorry to say this but Batwoman gets a free pass because she's not that big of a character as Wonder Woman whose the kind of character that even non readers would even recognize and is the idol to little girls who dress as her on Halloween. I doubt you'd have many parents that would be so quick as to have their daughter dress as someone who have came out of the closet or swings both ways
    "It isn't jumping the shark if you never come back down." Chuck

  4. #154
    Best In The World Legato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post

    So Diana suddenly getting a girlfriend would probably get some controversy--fanboys losing their crap, FOX News calling it the End of Heterosexuality and all that nonsense--but if the story is good and it gets enough fan support after the release, it would probably work and stick to the character.
    Not just famboys. It could even turn non readers away from the books and thats the problem DC don't want to risk facing as they're about getting new readers
    "It isn't jumping the shark if you never come back down." Chuck

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Much as I like the idea that sales would increase, I kinda doubt it.

    - Wonder Woman is already a GLBT icon and has a solid bisexual readership as it stands.
    - Sadly, I believe the homophobic readers outnumber the bisexual readers and I think more readers would be lost than gained
    It depends on how much excitement they would think they could drum up by having one of their most iconic characters be LGTBQ. By one estimate, about 4 million Americans identify as gay or Lesbian, and 4 million identify as bisexual. About another .03% say they are transgendered (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_846348.html). Round it down to 8 million, and if you could get 1% of that population to read Wonder Woman, you could almost double the comic's current sales even if you lost all the heterosexual readers (and we know you would not lose all the heterosexual readers).

    Publicity about Alan Scott being gay did seem to help Earth Two.

    Merchandise sales could be a concern, though.

  6. #156
    Junior Member jestersjoker's Avatar
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    Considering the changing demographics of America I cannot see how DC could make Wonder Woman Lesbian or bi.
    I mean the white population is in decline, the black American population is in decline.
    Think about it. The global Islamic population is doubling every 20 to 25 years
    The way things are looking it is more likely we will see Sharia law implemented here in America.
    The end of porn on the internet, OMG

  7. #157
    Dark Knight Detective DarkKnghtJared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    See, I don't think it would pass.

    I think that Wonder Woman is an icon - people wear the shirts and carry the wallets and tote bags without having a clue, and if it were in the papers that she's bi? I think there would be an uproar and WB and DC don't want to deal with it.
    Eh, there was a uproar when people saw Wonder Woman was going to start wearing black leather pants. I think her having a girlfriend would probably last maybe a week longer in the casual blogosphere than that.

  8. #158
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    Eh, there was a uproar when people saw Wonder Woman was going to start wearing black leather pants. I think her having a girlfriend would probably last maybe a week longer in the casual blogosphere than that.
    I think you grossly misunderestimate those people who are against homosexuality.

    I can easily see this as being a rallying cry for the far right wing, 'See! The homosexual agenda in action! They're trying to turn our kids gay by making Wonder Woman gay!' (a lot of them couldn't care less about bisexuality in that regard)

    A change of fashion is nothing in the greater scheme of things, but two of the big key social issues in America are women's rights (abortion/contraception) and gay rights. States have amended their constitutions to ban gay marriage, so having Diana become gay/bi is, imo, just handing them ammo and no, I don't think it would die down.

  9. #159
    Dark Knight Detective DarkKnghtJared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I think you grossly misunderestimate those people who are against homosexuality.

    I can easily see this as being a rallying cry for the far right wing, 'See! The homosexual agenda in action! They're trying to turn our kids gay by making Wonder Woman gay!' (a lot of them couldn't care less about bisexuality in that regard)

    A change of fashion is nothing in the greater scheme of things, but two of the big key social issues in America are women's rights (abortion/contraception) and gay rights. States have amended their constitutions to ban gay marriage, so having Diana become gay/bi is, imo, just handing them ammo and no, I don't think it would die down.
    Okay, bigger example: the Death of Captain America. When that happened, there were plenty of far-right calls of "this is the liberal media trying to kill our American pride by killing our icons" or something like that...and that lasted for about a week and then no one in the regular media cared.

  10. #160
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    Okay, bigger example: the Death of Captain America. When that happened, there were plenty of far-right calls of "this is the liberal media trying to kill our American pride by killing our icons" or something like that...and that lasted for about a week and then no one in the regular media cared.
    That's a little different. There are people in 'merica who hate homosexuality so much that they spend more time obsessing over it than any gay person would.

    It's a pretty polar issue down there, and one that Diana's just not popular enough to overcome.
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  11. #161
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    Okay, bigger example: the Death of Captain America. When that happened, there were plenty of far-right calls of "this is the liberal media trying to kill our American pride by killing our icons" or something like that...and that lasted for about a week and then no one in the regular media cared.
    One of the reasons that didn't catch on?

    Superman died and came back. Everyone knew/expected the same would happen with Cap - it wasn't a permanent change in the status quo.

  12. #162
    Senior Member ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    It depends on how much excitement they would think they could drum up by having one of their most iconic characters be LGTBQ. By one estimate, about 4 million Americans identify as gay or Lesbian, and 4 million identify as bisexual. About another .03% say they are transgendered (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_846348.html). Round it down to 8 million, and if you could get 1% of that population to read Wonder Woman, you could almost double the comic's current sales even if you lost all the heterosexual readers (and we know you would not lose all the heterosexual readers).

    Publicity about Alan Scott being gay did seem to help Earth Two.

    Merchandise sales could be a concern, though.
    This is pretty much it, I think.

    Im not actually worried about the comic book audience.

    What would happen is, the media would go nuts over the announcement, the far right would throw a giant fit, the gay community would throw a party. Comic sales would skyrocket for the first issue or three, especially digital I suspect, and depending on quality, stay solid. Fans will bitch online, but lets be honest, fans of Diana complained endlessly about pants. So let them complain. They will still buy the book. The sales will speak for themselves. Hell, just look at the title right now. Almost nothing but bitch bitch bitch about the comic, and its seeing better numbers than it has in years.

    The merchandise however, is questionable. It boils down to this: do more hetero people buy WW stuff for themselves and their kids than the gay community would buy to support *their* popular culture icon? I have no idea, but I suspect it would roughly even out.

  13. #163
    Senior Member ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I think you grossly misunderestimate those people who are against homosexuality.

    I can easily see this as being a rallying cry for the far right wing, 'See! The homosexual agenda in action! They're trying to turn our kids gay by making Wonder Woman gay!' (a lot of them couldn't care less about bisexuality in that regard)

    A change of fashion is nothing in the greater scheme of things, but two of the big key social issues in America are women's rights (abortion/contraception) and gay rights. States have amended their constitutions to ban gay marriage, so having Diana become gay/bi is, imo, just handing them ammo and no, I don't think it would die down.
    And several states just legalized it. I live in one, actually. And yes the right wing would turn it into ammo. But who cares? I mean, Donald Trump tried to say that Dark Knight Rises was an anti-Romney film, because the villain was named Bane. And really, you dont even have to read between the lines to see that the film really has a Republican sort of bent. Bane's army is clearly 99%'ers.

    Point being, people will complain about anything, no matter what. So screw 'em, and do your thing regardless.

    How many far right wingers are reading comic books on a monthly basis? Of them, how many read Wonder Woman? As Slvn said, the real threat would be the merchandise. And I have to admit, seeing guys walking around in Wonder Woman shirts would be pretty weird.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    That's a little different. There are people in 'merica who hate homosexuality so much that they spend more time obsessing over it than any gay person would.

    It's a pretty polar issue down there, and one that Diana's just not popular enough to overcome.
    This is changing, though. Earlier this month, three more states instituted marriage equality--and for the first time, they did it not in the courts or legislatures, but through the popular vote. In a fourth state, voters rejected a proposal to ban same-sex marriage. LGBTQ characters have become more common on television, and if the public is used to them on TV, I'm not sure very many people would pay attention to their presence in the comics for very long, no matter how prominent the character. And the issue's becoming somewhat less polarized as some libertarian-leaning conservatives recognize how inconsistent it is with their philosophy to tell anyone who they should be attracted to. Conservative Ted Olson, a high-ranking lwayer in the Reagan and G.W. Bush Administrations, is one of the lawyers who has been arguing in the courts that California's marraige equality law should be re-instituted.

    DC could always test the waters with an alternate-universe mini in which another version of Wonder Woman is Lesbian or bisexual.
    Last edited by slvn; 11-20-2012 at 09:05 AM.

  15. #165
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascended View Post
    And several states just legalized it. I live in one, actually. And yes the right wing would turn it into ammo. But who cares? I mean, Donald Trump tried to say that Dark Knight Rises was an anti-Romney film, because the villain was named Bane. And really, you dont even have to read between the lines to see that the film really has a Republican sort of bent. Bane's army is clearly 99%'ers.

    Point being, people will complain about anything, no matter what. So screw 'em, and do your thing regardless.

    How many far right wingers are reading comic books on a monthly basis? Of them, how many read Wonder Woman? As Slvn said, the real threat would be the merchandise. And I have to admit, seeing guys walking around in Wonder Woman shirts would be pretty weird.
    It's not comic book sales. They are nothing compared to merchandizing sales and the WW 'brand.'

    WB would care if the right wing boycotted them. Could this possibly turn around and bite the right wingers in the butt? Sure, but would the WB gamble the world's most recognizable superhero on it? I don't think so.

    Btw, to give you an example, I just attended a conference for work (medical research) at which there was a charity auction. Among the items were a week at a Costa Rico villa (valued at $1200) and a custom made bamboo fly rod (valued at $1600). However, the item that made the greatest profit by percentage?

    A Wonder Woman tote bag valued at $75 that sold for $350 in a three way bidding war.

    Why?

    I asked the woman who won. She said she loved Wonder Woman and pulled out her WW wallet from her purse. She's not a comic collector and knows nothing about the book, but was willing to drop $350 to a charity for a tote bag.

    There's no way that WB wants to mess with that kinda following in the non-comic world.

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