Could/Should Diana be bisexual/gay?

[ascended]

Yeah, I am opening up a huge can of worms here. I know. Let's try to be cool.

Im just saying. Island with no men. Women have needs too. Strong precedent in Greek myth.

The topic has been brushed against on occasion, but no one, to my knowledge, has really dug into it. I assume its because that subject material is far to...involved.....for a title that tries to be young-teen friendly, and DC is smarter than I am and avoids the topic.

But could it be done? In order for you to accept it, what would need to be done? And not done?

We all know this is a delicate subject, so please. Lets try to set a good example for the politicians by being civil, polite, and tolerant.

[Namtab]

I think her being bisexual could be quite interesting.

Though, being such a high-profile character (the highest when it comes to female superheroes), it would cause a huge uproar from the anti-gay crowd. Not saying that's ever a reason to not move characters towards this type of progression, but I'm not sure if DC is quite ready to do this, yet.

[therapist]

I've always thought it made more sense if she were bisexual or gay.

[UsagiTsukino]

Yea, to me the amazons since are made by Aphrodite, They love the people not the gender.

[Gaelforce]

Yeah, I am opening up a huge can of worms here. I know. Let's try to be cool.

Im just saying. Island with no men. Women have needs too. Strong precedent in Greek myth.

The topic has been brushed against on occasion, but no one, to my knowledge, has really dug into it. I assume its because that subject material is far to...involved.....for a title that tries to be young-teen friendly, and DC is smarter than I am and avoids the topic.

But could it be done? In order for you to accept it, what would need to be done? And not done?

We all know this is a delicate subject, so please. Lets try to set a good example for the politicians by being civil, polite, and tolerant.

We have had this chat more than once ;)

That being said, though, I'm firmly in the 'no' column for two reasons:

1. The 'she was raised on an island of women' feeds the 'if you're around gay people you become gay' argument that I strongly disagree with.

2. There's also the stereotype that strong women must be lesbians/butch and I really don't want to see Diana turned into a stereotype.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against GLBT characters and I love it when they're well written (I love Batwoman and I miss Renee Montoya), but as a woman who grew up a tomboy and was constantly accused of being a lesbian simply because I liked sports and because my older sister is gay...it wasn't fun.

[Don-Jack]

I think she is, or she should be, but not for the arguments Gael mentioned. It's just that she feels open to love men and women. And that it would be cool to have a proeminent character that is bissexual (besides Constantine).

[ascended]

We have had this chat more than once ;)

That being said, though, I'm firmly in the 'no' column for two reasons:

1. The 'she was raised on an island of women' feeds the 'if you're around gay people you become gay' argument that I strongly disagree with.

2. There's also the stereotype that strong women must be lesbians/butch and I really don't want to see Diana turned into a stereotype.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against GLBT characters and I love it when they're well written (I love Batwoman and I miss Renee Montoya), but as a woman who grew up a tomboy and was constantly accused of being a lesbian simply because I liked sports and because my older sister is gay...it wasn't fun.

Good points. Though, I would argue, simply for the sake of playing devil's advocate, that if something makes sense or works well for a story/character growth/whatever, that avoiding it simply because it happens to fall into a stereotype only serves to destabilize the integrity of the whole story. I know that these characters are as much business as they are art, but still.

You are right in that it would fall into the stereotypes, which is shameful, but should we avoid writing a black character who is athletic, simply because of the stereotype? Or avoid rich white characters? Know what I mean? Where do you draw the line?

Now, I dont think that just because there are no men around, the women of Themyscira would automatically become lesbians. You're either born gay or you're not and the "all girls island" isnt going to change that. But yknow, with no other alternatives...especially if we're running with the immortal Amazon concept....well, as they say, any port in a storm.

And as another poster said, Diana could, within the context of this society, be attracted to someone for who they are, and find beauty in them regardless of gender. Clearly she likes men, and I wouldnt want to see that changed. But I could see her being attracted to a woman too.

[Outside_85]

For some reason whenever I look into this subject, I start typing and then feel like I am going to be putting my foot in my mouth if I write more than a line :S

But; I think the possibility of her being bi- is more or less built into her character. And I say that simply because she is from a place that doesn't (and possibly never has) looked down on same sex relationships.

[UsagiTsukino]

I always though the amazons never had sexual orientation that because they were made form the goddess of love, that are more in love with person than the gender.

[slvn]

We have had this chat more than once ;)

That being said, though, I'm firmly in the 'no' column for two reasons:

1. The 'she was raised on an island of women' feeds the 'if you're around gay people you become gay' argument that I strongly disagree with.

I agree that haven't been raised on an island of women shouldn't determine her "preference" or sexual orientation (though I do think our ideas about "sexual orientation" are largely culturally constructed and would seem incongruous in her culture, and her upbringing would make her more likely to have experienced same-sex intimacy, since, preference aside, same-sex intimacy was the only sexual intimacy available to her as a young women). But if the writers were to have her be Lesbian or bisexual, they could easily avoid confirming the "contagion" misconception by just having other Amazons show that they are heterosexually oriented.

2. There's also the stereotype that strong women must be lesbians/butch and I really don't want to see Diana turned into a stereotype.

Same thing here--you could counter this stereotype by having some other Amazons be heterosexual and strong. At the same time, having Wonder Woman be strong, bisexual or Lesbian and feminine could counter the stereotype that only heterosexuals can be feminine and all Lesbians are "butch."

Of course, you could also have another Amazons counter this stereotype by being a femme (and, more importantly, gentle, kind, peaceful, sensitive, elegant, and otherwise positively "unmanly") Lesbian or bisexual. But the reason I like the idea of Diana being bisexual or Lesbian is that she is supposed to represent the best in women (and humanity) and all previous versions have apparently been straight; so why not have one version show that a Lesbian or bisexual, too, can represent the best of her gender and species?

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against GLBT characters and I love it when they're well written (I love Batwoman and I miss Renee Montoya), but as a woman who grew up a tomboy and was constantly accused of being a lesbian simply because I liked sports and because my older sister is gay...it wasn't fun.

Totally understood--clearly, just wanting this character to be hetereosexual doesn't make a person homophobic!

[Rob_Olivera]

We have had this chat more than once ;)

That being said, though, I'm firmly in the 'no' column for two reasons:

1. The 'she was raised on an island of women' feeds the 'if you're around gay people you become gay' argument that I strongly disagree with.

2. There's also the stereotype that strong women must be lesbians/butch and I really don't want to see Diana turned into a stereotype.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against GLBT characters and I love it when they're well written (I love Batwoman and I miss Renee Montoya), but as a woman who grew up a tomboy and was constantly accused of being a lesbian simply because I liked sports and because my older sister is gay...it wasn't fun.

Yep. We HAVE had this discussion before.. more than once. The last time we did, I posted this image jokingly... then everyone jumped in saying "That's not what she meant!!!!" LOL. I know.

[captainwonder]

I'd like o see one of her sisters as a supporting character be gay in WW but not Diana.

[dshipp17]

I agree that haven't been raised on an island of women shouldn't determine her "preference" or sexual orientation (though I do think our ideas about "sexual orientation" are largely culturally constructed and would seem incongruous in her culture, and her upbringing would make her more likely to have experienced same-sex intimacy, since, preference aside, same-sex intimacy was the only sexual intimacy available to her as a young women). But if the writers were to have her be Lesbian or bisexual, they could easily avoid confirming the "contagion" misconception by just having other Amazons show that they are heterosexually oriented.



Same thing here--you could counter this stereotype by having some other Amazons be heterosexual and strong. At the same time, having Wonder Woman be strong, bisexual or Lesbian and feminine could counter the stereotype that only heterosexuals can be feminine and all Lesbians are "butch."

Of course, you could also have another Amazons counter this stereotype by being a femme (and, more importantly, gentle, kind, peaceful, sensitive, elegant, and otherwise positively "unmanly") Lesbian or bisexual. But the reason I like the idea of Diana being bisexual or Lesbian is that she is supposed to represent the best in women (and humanity) and all previous versions have apparently been straight; so why not have one version show that a Lesbian or bisexual, too, can represent the best of her gender and species?



Totally understood--clearly, just wanting this character to be hetereosexual doesn't make a person homophobic!

I'm about to stir the pot with most posters in this thread and a small segment of the population at large, but I believe logic supports the position that being raised on an island of the same gender would create the propensity for Diana to have possibly engaged in same sex intimacy; and logic supports the thousands of years old position that same sex preference is culturally influenced. Supporting my position is that male lions prefer female lions, male elephants prefer female elephants, male cheetahs prefer female cheetahs, male alligators prefer female alligators (e.g. putting two male alligators in unnaturally close proximity with one another is likely to result in the death of one of the male alligators), etc. For thousands of years, humankind lived with the position that men like women; however, for some reason, it's become almost a humorous issue, because people in the United States media, at least, have been taking a position to give the perception that same sex has been the norm for thousands of years, even though it's only developed into acceptability in the United States media for about the past five years. That aside, I'm, not surprising, of the position that male and female created He, and that's the norm, and it takes an environmental stimulus to create a same sex orientation in a person. However, clearly, people would like to be in denial about that hypothesis, especially where it appears that western media has their back.

Thus, Diana likely engaged in same sex intimacy while on Paradise Island. When she met Steve, she very easily reverted back to her normal desires for a male. However, that's probably the most weak example to illustrate this point, because the context of Diana is a comic book written by Marston who chose to make it so. But I think same sex is abnormal and is very unlikely to be the outcome without some environmental stimulus. Morally, I'm obligated to consider it wrong. Legally, which seems to be what most here on the board base the issue upon, same sex orientation is perfectly fine. I do feel that it's/was also wrong to ostracize people who commit this particular moral wrong. It would have been better to treat them with kindness and hope they will soon see the error of their ways. But, on the other hand, sexual orientation is also not an issue that someone should try to pull out of someone, but the usual presumption is likely to be that someone is heterosexual; thus, in other words, I like the notion of don't ask, don't tell, but, if the person chooses to bring it out, it's best to continue to support that person as human beings and citizens, and do the best to the extent feasible to not create an atmosphere of ostracization; I think it's that atmosphere of ostracization that made them victims, and, subsequently, got media to purport that the behavior somehow doesn't have an environmental stimulus.

Having said that, I've had gay friends, as a male, and I've had gay men hit on me; in those instances, I can begin to have some empathy for women. In one specific example, I can remember a situation where somehow I got on this bus where it was just me and this guy; I got on the bus to either ask directions and/or just to ride the bus. As we were engaged in a conversation, he really begin to crowd me and I was surprised, because it was new. Next I knew, he was rubbing me in my area. To keep it from getting further, I just started making things up to get out of the conversation and finally got of the bus. I was freaked out, because it was the first time it was done by a male, but I had females do it many times by that point in my life; as some, I didn't become homophobic; it was just a different experience for me, but it did follow another male encounter in my childhood. I have several more examples, but I'll spare the readers.

If anything, I'll go as far to say that genes may be involved with the ease to which someone can become same sex oriented, but environmental factors would need to enter the fray.

[Sacred Knight]

She could if they wanted to write her that way. "Should" however implies something that ought to be done, and there's no reason that she HAS to be bi or lesbian.

[Alatheus]

This can of worms has been opened up plenty already. In fact, it was most recently discussed here:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com...onder-Woman-Bi

Yeah, I am opening up a huge can of worms here. I know. Let's try to be cool.

Im just saying. Island with no men. Women have needs too. Strong precedent in Greek myth.

The topic has been brushed against on occasion, but no one, to my knowledge, has really dug into it. I assume its because that subject material is far to...involved.....for a title that tries to be young-teen friendly, and DC is smarter than I am and avoids the topic.

But could it be done? In order for you to accept it, what would need to be done? And not done?

We all know this is a delicate subject, so please. Lets try to set a good example for the politicians by being civil, polite, and tolerant.