Thor: God of Thunder #1 *Spoilers*

[jpbl1976]

I know I am not a Fraction apologist, because as you say, Fraction is good on idea, and short of deliverance. However, saying that, Fraction still has to be recognized for the attempts at adding mythological significance to Asgard, just like Gillen did in JiM. As to Aaron and Rubics vision of Thor, there does seem to be some interest in the idea of the God connected to his congregation. Thor would find it hard getting any attention in this Judio-Christian environment he finds himself in on Midgard. Being hungered for any recognition by his constituency would be a very major problem for Thor and the rest of the gods. If Aaron wants to really address the iniquity of devotion between the New Testament and the pagan gods, it's a pretty heavy subject. For one, the New Testament religions have wiped out the pagan idolatry across the world, so why do the other pantheons even exist?

These ideas about the relationship between old Gods and their followers -- even the notion that some Gods draw their power from belief -- are nothing new. Neil Gaiman examined this 20 years ago in Brief Lives (and even earlier) and Grant Morrison had very similar ideas in Invisibles (John Lennon had even evolved into a God of sorts because of the power of his ideas). If I'm not mistaken, Michael Moorcock also examined these ideas in his own novels.

Of course, I wouldn't put it past Fraction to have copied the concept from Gaiman, Moore or any number of authors. The problem is that Fraction is no Gaiman or Morrison; he doesn't quite possess the skill to fit high concept into conventional Superhero storytelling. Jason Aaron, on the other hand, is quite talented (even though I was rather confused by his Hulk run, I am a huge fan of Scalped). His examination of "what it means to be a God" insofar as what he's doing in Thor God of Thunder seems like a more deft approach to the role of Gods in a superhero universe, particularly given the confines of the Superhero genre (i.e. the heavy role of continuity) and its tropes and conventions. That is to say, it's easier to portray a "God" as being a benevolent super-powered being who exists across vast swaths of time than it is to disregard established continuity in service of the idea that "myths are unreliable" as Fraction attempted (and failed) to do during his Thor run.

On another tangent -- and to touch on the Brief Lives story briefly, some old gods, like Bast have been greatly diminished as they've been forgotten while others, like Pharamond have found a way to adapt. In a very superficial way, Pharamond's adaptation to the evolution of belief is similar to the way that Thor and the Asgardians have adapted to their changing role over the millenia. However, unlike Pharamond, Thor was never "powered" by his followers' belief to begin with. Thor's puissance is a function of physical characteristics independent of whether he has followers or not, hence the evolution of the Marvel's Norse pantheon from deific beings (as was intended by Kirby/Lee) to a quasi-alien race (as is the current treatment in line with the movie property). Interestingly, because the Norse pantheon is a central fixture of the Marvel mythos (a function of Thor's own centrality to the overall Marvel myth narrative) this distinction has been applied primarily to them but it should be applied across all the mythological pantheons of the Marvel Universe since the different pantheons mutually acknowledge the others as fellow "Gods/Immortals."

[jackolover]

These ideas about the relationship between old Gods and their followers -- even the notion that some Gods draw their power from belief -- are nothing new. Neil Gaiman examined this 20 years ago in Brief Lives (and even earlier) and Grant Morrison had very similar ideas in Invisibles (John Lennon had even evolved into a God of sorts because of the power of his ideas). If I'm not mistaken, Michael Moorcock also examined these ideas in his own novels.

Of course, I wouldn't put it past Fraction to have copied the concept from Gaiman, Moore or any number of authors. The problem is that Fraction is no Gaiman or Morrison; he doesn't quite possess the skill to fit high concept into conventional Superhero storytelling. Jason Aaron, on the other hand, is quite talented (even though I was rather confused by his Hulk run, I am a huge fan of Scalped). His examination of "what it means to be a God" insofar as what he's doing in Thor God of Thunder seems like a more deft approach to the role of Gods in a superhero universe, particularly given the confines of the Superhero genre (i.e. the heavy role of continuity) and its tropes and conventions. That is to say, it's easier to portray a "God" as being a benevolent super-powered being who exists across vast swaths of time than it is to disregard established continuity in service of the idea that "myths are unreliable" as Fraction attempted (and failed) to do during his Thor run.

On another tangent -- and to touch on the Brief Lives story briefly, some old gods, like Bast have been greatly diminished as they've been forgotten while others, like Pharamond have found a way to adapt. In a very superficial way, Pharamond's adaptation to the evolution of belief is similar to the way that Thor and the Asgardians have adapted to their changing role over the millenia. However, unlike Pharamond, Thor was never "powered" by his followers' belief to begin with. Thor's puissance is a function of physical characteristics independent of whether he has followers or not, hence the evolution of the Marvel's Norse pantheon from deific beings (as was intended by Kirby/Lee) to a quasi-alien race (as is the current treatment in line with the movie property). Interestingly, because the Norse pantheon is a central fixture of the Marvel mythos (a function of Thor's own centrality to the overall Marvel myth narrative) this distinction has been applied primarily to them but it should be applied across all the mythological pantheons of the Marvel Universe since the different pantheons mutually acknowledge the others as fellow "Gods/Immortals."

Yeah, I think we are stuck with the way Marvel have interpreted the Norse Gods relationship with it's constituency, and it's not dependent on whether they Are believed in or not. So it's even more striking that Aaron is addressing the worship issue and showing Thor as being affected by it.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

Great issue, I was a little skeptical at first. Hearing that there would be three Thor's from three different eras didn't sit right with me(I really hate time travel stories). But so far this has my attention.

Don't look at it as a time travel story, but a story that spans an extensive length of time.

[Juggernaut Punch]

Don't look at it as a time travel story, but a story that spans an extensive length of time.

Exactly. There is absolutely no time travel in this story, its just being told in three parts. One part happens in the past, one part happens in the present and one part happens in the future. There is no interaction between these three parts or the characters in them. Its like the beginning, middle and end of a story.

[jpbl1976]

Yeah, I think we are stuck with the way Marvel have interpreted the Norse Gods relationship with it's constituency, and it's not dependent on whether they Are believed in or not. So it's even more striking that Aaron is addressing the worship issue and showing Thor as being affected by it.

I really don't think Thor was affected by being prayed to -- so much as he was responding to a call for help from an innocent. Thor's response to it, in that sense, is consistent with Marvel's historical portrayal of Thor as a sort of benevolent guardian figure to mortals. I realize, of course, that you didn't particularly like the method (QED your posts on this subject) but it was actually a fairly simple narrative device for Aaron to use in order to set his story in motion.

In a way, it was similar to that "last Viking" story that Simonson did during the early part of his run and now, as then, I think Thor was more surprised than anything that someone was actually calling for him since it hadn't been done in a long while. I suspect that Aaron may have sub-consciously been referencing that Simonson story since he's already related in interviews that his introduction to Thor comics was during Simonson's run.

What's more, Thor's response to the "prayer," insofar as Ribic was able to convey through his artwork (smile on his face, arm reaching out almost as an embrace -- hardly the actions of a terrible and puissant deity, by the way), seemed to be that he was indulging an innocent child rather than seeking to be actively worshiped -- that is, he was just being nice (and noble) -- and that's really a Thor we've rarely seen these past few years -- and one I really miss.

That said, it might just be that Aaron was simply using the whispered prayer in the same manner that numerous Superman writers have had Kal-el respond to distant cries for help from far-off places. Granted, this one was a "universe away" but, then again, this is Thor narrating it and his interpretation of space/time may not necessarily conform to the scientific understanding of it (i.e. it probably wasn't that far).

Also, I suspect that Aaron is skilled enough -- given the narrative framing of the stories -- to perhaps play with the idea of the unreliable narrator just a little bit. Besides, it's not often portrayed that Thor has super hearing, but its certainly not something that's outside his power set, if I recall correctly from earlier Thor stories.

[HaveAtThee]

I don't understand why nobody finds this odd that an alien girl's prayer gets heard by a Norse God. It must make a lot of sense to a most people, but I find it a little too cute. What purpose does it serve? I've read that a sub plot is that not having gods is a sore point with Thor, so this alien race disturbs Thor's what? His very existence, because gods have to have a reason to live and that is to answer prayer?

I feel the whole scene served two purposes. It gets current Thor across the universe to stumble onto another butchery of Indigarr's undiscovered immortals. Aaron's also able to continue his theme of Thor being a god and exploring that facet of his character. Thor is summoned based on reputation in the universe of being able to control the elements. It's like Superman hearing a plea of help from across the galaxy. Maybe that person doesn't believe in a god, but they've heard of Superman and his feats and need help. I don't think it goes any deeper than that, really.

[HaveAtThee]

What's more, Thor's response to the "prayer," insofar as Ribic was able to convey through his artwork (smile on his face, arm reaching out almost as an embrace -- hardly the actions of a terrible and puissant deity, by the way), seemed to be that he was indulging an innocent child rather than seeking to be actively worshiped -- that is, he was just being nice (and noble) -- and that's really a Thor we've rarely seen these past few years -- and one I really miss.

I concur with this. The whole scene following with the alien man being astounded that Thor and his realm even exist add some nice depth, as we see a couple of different sides of Thor in the span of a few panels. His magnanimity in answering the girl's call for help, his vanity in accepting the offerings of celebration from the Indigarr, and his hot passion in reaction to the Indigarr man who doubted Thor and these stories he was telling. It was a refreshing scene for Thor the character in a long while.

[DebkoX]

Just got the code and downloaded it, skimmed through and the art looks great!

[thwhtGuardian]

A pretty awesome first issue, I'm a long lapsed Marvel reader who decided to jump in with the whole Marvel Now! thing and this really drew me in. I really loved how mythic it all felt, this was a Tho who felt truly godly and I loved it. But what really struck me was how in each time period Thor was portrayed so uniquely, you could see the character growth that happened through out his life between the panels. I've never seen the like of that before, when comics do the whole meeting of characters from the past, present and future the feeling that they are all the same character usually isn't there; you don't get the sense of an organic growth in character you just get three different characters.

Top notch stuff.

[J/O/J/O]

I saw the scene with Thor answering the prayer as Aaron's meta way of showing his version of Thor is a true God.Hey,what can you expect from the guy who made Weapon XVI AKA The Living Religion?

[jphamlore]

Aaron seems to be rather skillfully weaving together themes of various writers on Thor. Given that Marvel's writers have said they are in close collaboration with each other bouncing off ideas back and forth, it is not surprising to me to see various themes from Fraction's and Gillen's run at least being given a reference.

Gorr to me seems to be depicted as feeding on fear, although in contrast to Cul, Gorr seems to me to be feeding on the fear of gods as they are slowly tortured to death, not feeding on general fear in humanity. It would not surprise me if Gorr's origin eventually reveals he accidentally discovered his ideal food source similar to Gillen's telling of the origin of Cul. But here in Aaron's story, there is the contrast in how the gods view themselves and how they relate to their followers, some seen as giving aid, others seen as cruel and monstrous such as the former gods of Indigarr. I therefore speculate that Gorr originated from a people who viewed their gods as beings of mostly caprice and cruelty, and that he discovered his special gift when driven by his gods to be in desperate circumstances.

Then there is the question of why is Thor the last one standing at the end when so many gods have fallen before him over the millenia. Here I remember Fraction's depiction of Thor standing eventually alone against the legions of Hel slaughtering them for days upon days without respite. (Is that the Destroyer's arm that Thor puts on for his final stand? And Aaron has indicated that Thor somehow feels himself responsible for what occurred, is it possible he needs this arm somehow to wield the Hammer. Eh, doubt that last one as the Hammer does come back to him after throwing it.) Perhaps what keeps Thor alive for now is that when he is challenged by hordes, Thor's innate nature is to resort to his berserker's rage, the counter to the guardian dogs of Gorr he also refers to as "black berserkers".

[Maidman]

I thought this book was one of the BEST MArvel NOW BOOKS SO FAR.

[StoneGold]

I thought this book was one of the BEST MArvel NOW BOOKS SO FAR.

Helped a lot it was the most self-contained. Other than the Odin reference and the costume changes, this could be a Thor story from any time.

[BartonisHawkeye88]

Loved it. Reminded me of "The 13th Warrior" for some reason. Which is a good thing

[thwhtGuardian]

Helped a lot it was the most self-contained. Other than the Odin reference and the costume changes, this could be a Thor story from any time.

I'm all for self contained stories, so that was definitely a selling point for me.