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  1. #706
    Elder Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    that would work only if you left off feeding the starting, ending organized large scale mass murder and providing clean water. You tell it all to them and he comes off as a saint.
    For starters, the 05 don't know what the Phoenix is, or that Jean was the cause of it, (that would make Jean just as freaked out as Scott junior). Then the 05 have to get their head around the power that the PF is, and rationalize that it was okay. That just there is far too much mental gymnastics for 2 kids to get their heads around. I don't think they would even get to the point that taking all power away from the worlds countries, was a good thing.
    Visited NY and DC and saw Spider-Man Turn off the Dark.

  2. #707
    Veteran Member Juggernaut Punch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daesim View Post
    It wasn't sustainable. The P5 were going to eventually crack.
    There was absolutely no sign that they were until the Avengers took down Namor. If they'd have been left in peace there's every indication that they would have controlled it just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daesim View Post
    Pay unto evil with evil is how we're doing things now?
    So we should just do away with punishment in total? These are bad people that need to be stopped from doing bad things.

  3. #708
    Elder Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut Punch View Post
    Captain Capitalism doesn't tolerate handouts. Unless you work for it you don't deserve food, housing, medicine and not being raped and killed by marauders.
    Yes, that is a fair criticism. If Marvel has a problem with this interpretation, then they should address the lack of empathy in regard to Steve Rogers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut Punch View Post
    Comrade Summers better think twice next time he and his commie friends try helping the poor and miserable or he'll get another star-spangled fist to his hammer and sickles.
    I think there is an argument to be made that Utopian ideals are only a quick fix anyway. You can't have heaven on Earth, because that overturns the whole Judeo-Christian ethos that living life in the world is painful, not a luxury. I'm sure it would last quite a while, but Marvels Universe couldn't relate to the human condition, if it left the MU as Scots benevolent enterprise for an extended time. It was always going to crumble because the comic book world doesn't operate like that. This is the MU, where everybody fails just to be picked up and start again. Not, our lives are complete, so there is nothing left for us to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by stussyjones View Post
    Lol 10101010
    Why are you using Ultron speak?

    Quote Originally Posted by imperial90 View Post
    Not the point, Kurolegacy said its ok to live in crushing poverty so long as your free, I disagree with that notion, absolute freedom gives you nothing when you live in abject poverty, a life focused on scratching by another day leaves you with no other options, since surviving will always be the utmost priority since you can't really do anything if your dead, you have no time or energy for anything else in such a situation.
    I suppose the solution to abject poverty is what do those who are in want as their life? Is it the Western Democracy, or,is it some Tribal Philosophy? Maybe it's something else, who knows, but I think people in abject poverty need a focus, or they will just remain where they lie. It's why political and handout solutions seem to fail so quickly. You inject what you think the abject poor should have, but they don't want that. It's a little more complicated than coming into the desert and applying climate change mechanics on an environment that has a larger problem than lack of water and neutiants. Weather patterns predicate what a desert will be. The same goes with political independence influencing the abject poverty cycle.

    Why didn't the oil rich countries of the Middle East apply all the climate change technology available with the wealth they had, and make their countries from sand duned deserts into lush forests?
    Visited NY and DC and saw Spider-Man Turn off the Dark.

  4. #709
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Well then in that case, I suppose that everyone who opposes Doctor Doom is also wrong in their actions. After all, while he asks to be made absolute ruler of the world, he wants to create a paradise for all. Any utopia that comes at the cost of "big brother" watching isn't true utopia.
    The P5 were not trying to play big brother, they just set ONE simple rule, a rule that most of the world has been praying for enforcement of for the last few millennium at the least. There is no greater impingement on human choice and freedom that war, sometimes war is necessary for a time to ensure that freedom exist but War itself is a negation of freedom. And the P5 removed the necessity excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Daesim View Post
    Of course her actions matter. She was one of the de facto rulers of the earth casually executing the people under her rule. That's not very comforting leadership.
    And nobody at all knows it happened so it has no impact on the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daesim View Post
    It wasn't sustainable. The P5 were going to eventually crack.
    To use real world number for every month it was sustained a half- million less people died particularly horrible deaths. Probably more since even a short term supply of food can have much longer lasting effects

    Have you ever seen what poverty looks like outside of first world countries? Smelled it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I suppose the solution to abject poverty is what do those who are in want as their life? Is it the Western Democracy, or,is it some Tribal Philosophy? Maybe it's something else, who knows, but I think people in abject poverty need a focus, or they will just remain where they lie. It's why political and handout solutions seem to fail so quickly. You inject what you think the abject poor should have, but they don't want that. It's a little more complicated than coming into the desert and applying climate change mechanics on an environment that has a larger problem than lack of water and neutiants. Weather patterns predicate what a desert will be. The same goes with political independence influencing the abject poverty cycle.

    Why didn't the oil rich countries of the Middle East apply all the climate change technology available with the wealth they had, and make their countries from sand duned deserts into lush forests?
    You are looking at peole desires at two high a level, what the worlds really poor want tends to be much more basic. Rhey want their children to living to adulthood to be the norm not a rarity, they want the knowledge that tomorrow they and their children can eat, they want to be able to drink water that is not likely to kill them.And they want their children to have the chance to dream of things beyond those nearly unreachable goals.
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  5. #710
    Elder Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post

    You are looking at people desires at two high a level, what the worlds really poor want tends to be much more basic. They want their children to living to adulthood to be the norm not a rarity, they want the knowledge that tomorrow they and their children can eat, they want to be able to drink water that is not likely to kill them.And they want their children to have the chance to dream of things beyond those nearly unreachable goals.
    They are simple enough outcomes, and very reasonable, and it's only that the countries they live in don't have the infrastructure to support those simple dreams, that it doesn't happen. And just giving people those simple outcomes doesn't set up an infrastructure to support those dreams, ongoing. It's why people have to set up their political system properly. If your political system is warlords roaming the borders and looting to sustain resources for protecting themselves, then that support system will only deteriorate.
    Visited NY and DC and saw Spider-Man Turn off the Dark.

  6. #711
    Ghostly Roboto Ebon Phantom's Avatar
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    Eva seems like she'll be cool, not sure about Christopher yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I think there is an argument to be made that Utopian ideals are only a quick fix anyway. You can't have heaven on Earth, because that overturns the whole Judeo-Christian ethos that living life in the world is painful, not a luxury. I'm sure it would last quite a while, but Marvels Universe couldn't relate to the human condition, if it left the MU as Scots benevolent enterprise for an extended time. It was always going to crumble because the comic book world doesn't operate like that. This is the MU, where everybody fails just to be picked up and start again. Not, our lives are complete, so there is nothing left for us to do.
    From an meta-viewing, the only types of stories that couldn't have been used were those involving regular "real world" situations, and those were barely used anyway. The super-villain and evil organizations type stories, which are pretty much the standard, would still have been viable, as long as the P5 were kept busy elsewhere, and that doesn't seem like it would have been all that hard to do. So they could have kept the world that way without much issue.

  7. #712
    Junior Member Robin TBW's Avatar
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    This is the first X-Men book I've taken a real look at and really enjoyed it. Didn't want to pick up too many of the new titles because there are so many but this was great. Really liked the story and art and where it looks like it may be going.

    My X-Men knowledge is (obviously) limited but from this issue I'm feeling positive about continuing to pick it up.

  8. #713
    Senior Member Castel's Avatar
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    Finally read it. Well, first X-book book i have read in years.

    And it was quite entertaining. Some cool rescue scenes, a cool idea for a story, nice art...can't wait to read the next issue.

  9. #714
    Veteran Member Juggernaut Punch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Yes, that is a fair criticism. If Marvel has a problem with this interpretation, then they should address the lack of empathy in regard to Steve Rogers.
    Thats how they portrayed him in AvX. Its like the writers haven't read anything featuring any Marvel character in AvX.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I think there is an argument to be made that Utopian ideals are only a quick fix anyway. You can't have heaven on Earth, because that overturns the whole Judeo-Christian ethos that living life in the world is painful, not a luxury. I'm sure it would last quite a while, but Marvels Universe couldn't relate to the human condition, if it left the MU as Scots benevolent enterprise for an extended time. It was always going to crumble because the comic book world doesn't operate like that. This is the MU, where everybody fails just to be picked up and start again. Not, our lives are complete, so there is nothing left for us to do.
    As opposed to the current system in the MU which is permanent and faulty free right?

    There's no arguing with the fact that the P5 Earth was boundlessly better than what it replaced and that the Avengers were acting completely insane in trying to destroy because "the P5 were probably maybe gonna crack down the line, so why not drive them crazy now to make sure it happens right?". The Utopian Earth shouldn't have been a plot point at all. The writers wrote themselves into a corner and it hurt the story.

  10. #715
    Member MonteMike72's Avatar
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    I read it at the not so local comic shop yesterday. Didn't care for the writing or the art. So I set it back on the large pile that was still sitting there. I still think that the idea of the original 5 coming to future is a good idea it's just the poor execution that will keep me from getting this book.

  11. #716
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    If Star Trek got Utopia right then why couldn't Scott?

  12. #717
    the best there is beserkerclaw's Avatar
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    It will be interesting to see what the O5 think since they only know stuff from the first 8 issues.

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  13. #718
    Sentinels were right chakal's Avatar
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    well, there is nothing interesting to me in seeing O5 talking to their future selfs.
    BUT, I understand why they decided to make this story now, and not year ago, or year later.
    The original Days of Future Past arc was set in year 2013.
    It was typical in '70/80s to set the future neither too far away nor to close (like in Terminator).
    And now, despite ANXM starting in 2012, it'll truly kick-off in 2013 which is a neat tribute/nod to original story (especially that Mystique will appear in #7 issue).
    So yeah, it's cool that X-men history finally reached the "Days of Future Past"-like moment, but the execution will be fundamental.
    Writers like Morrison, Claremont, Moore, could pull this off. But unfortunately, we have who we have.
    Say No to decompressed storytelling!

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  14. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    well, there is nothing interesting to me in seeing O5 talking to their future selfs.
    What if beast didn't have noble intentions and instead just wanted to save himself? He did say after all that he was the leading scientific figure regarding his circumences . Besides I find it silly. What would O5 do if they can't resolve it diplomatically? Fight with their elderselfs? First of all if they fight, then what's the difference between that and if Storm and co. did it?

    I saw a cover with both cyclops fighting each other. It looked kind of dumb for me because if teen cyclops can evenly fight with older cyclops then what has changed between those two except their personalities. And if it's the other way around what's the point of the fight?

    I really don't see how O5 can help in the current situation. I would rather say they will worsen it instead.

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