Retconned Innocence, Retconned Guilt

[chariset]

Doctor Strange's use of Zom in World War Hulk. It could have been interpreted as an ill-advised spell that got out of hand, and no worse than Reed attempting to mimic the Sentry to calm Hulk down. Instead, Bendis treated it as a major fall from grace and a severe lapse in Strange's character, from which he's been repenting ever since.

[Vic Vega]

I never understood the Xorn/Sublime/Magneto retcon.

Never saw the point of it, either since according to the story, Magneto commited his atrocities while hopped up.
If the editors needed an out for Maggy's douchbaggery it was there in the text.

[Bad Wolf]

I had to look that one up but you're right . There's a good site dedicated to the title and here is the issue synopsis.

Many times, the Gang members faces were never shown, you'd just see them from the back or obscured in some way. But the Thing does meet some of the kids in the issue in DeFalco's FF run where Doom is using some kids from his old neighborhood as test subjects in attempt to find a cure for drug addiction.

Oh, I didn't know about that issue. I was actually thinking of this one.

[Derek Metaltron]

Doctor Strange's use of Zom in World War Hulk. It could have been interpreted as an ill-advised spell that got out of hand, and no worse than Reed attempting to mimic the Sentry to calm Hulk down. Instead, Bendis treated it as a major fall from grace and a severe lapse in Strange's character, from which he's been repenting ever since.

I'd say that like Spidey unmasking during Civil War leading to May's Shooting and thus the removal of the MJ marriage, this was made to be a catalyst for a series of events to strip Stephen of his Sorcerer Supreme title and shift up the character. Not fond of it either to be honest.

[StoneGold]

Doctor Strange's use of Zom in World War Hulk. It could have been interpreted as an ill-advised spell that got out of hand, and no worse than Reed attempting to mimic the Sentry to calm Hulk down. Instead, Bendis treated it as a major fall from grace and a severe lapse in Strange's character, from which he's been repenting ever since.

That wasn't a retcon. That just happened. May be something you didn't like, but really doesn't fit the discussion.


Something else that doesn't fit the discussion, but almost did -- Abraham Erskine. Every once in a while, someone writes a story that makes him less than the cuddly old scientist trying to elevate all of humanity. Or at least appears to. Like, until it was apparent that this wasn't what was happening, THIS was what ticked me off about TRUTH more than anything else. It ended up being someone else using the Reinstein codename, but the one thing I didn't want was turning him into some sort of Megele mad scientist.

[Max_Power]

Jean Grey and the Phoenix, to be honest.

So the latent power of the girl suddenly exploded and she's the most powerful mutant ever? Cool, and that would make the human fear of mutants all the much more understandable. After all, all of them could be potentially cosmic entities with an enormous power. Much more fearsome than the heroes that got their powers by accident.

But then, they make the girl eat a star and kill millions of sentient beings in the process. Silly writers, you should have the girl eat a star in an system devoid of life, that way you get to keep your girl and also show that her powers were something to fear a lot (the Legion of Superheroes already made very clear that a Sun-Eater is something very cool, but also truly terrible).

So Marvel rightfully decides that after that, she had to die. And then, her future alternate dimension daughter or whatever, comes to the show, having that enormous power again to wow the readers. Well, I think that was misstep number one, considering what was going to be revealed in the future. Also, she wasn't nearly as cool as Jean, but at least it seemed that mutant genes still could put humanity in a lot of trouble.

After that, Jean was brought back to X-Factor and with that, the Cosmic Cockatoo. God have mercy of our souls. First of all, it is revealed that Jean, while no light-weight on her own, was still a wimp compared to the Cosmic Cockatoo, which decided that Jean was very cool and made itself a carbon copy of her, only with its own monstrous power added to the mix. That didn't go well, but being a carbon copy of Jean, the Parakeet decided to do the same things as Jean would, should her ever gain so gigantic power. Net result of this? Jean got a free pass from the killing of millions, but whenever the Dark Phoenix Saga is mentioned, everybody acts as if Jean was the one doing all the nasty stuff. Not nice.

Even worse was that it reseted mutants into beings of considerable might, but still manageable by people who uses armor or is too dumb to know that radiation is bad (or good, depends of what of your lotto ticket said). I honestly found that lame. That humanity didn't really have the unlimited potential of ascending into godhood should things go correctly. Or that mutant powers were really an ongoing evolution. Because before the Cosmic Cockatoo was revealed, it seemed that Jean wasn't a mutant anymore, but the next evolution of even mutants. Sigh.

And all that other stuff I don't feel like discussing too much in detail like return of the Phoenix Force to Jean, her death, other people wielding the Phoenix etc. And all of that with a really sneaky feeling that Jean was the Phoenix all along. The morons Shi'ar just killing her family because? With the Phoenix just possessing whoever it damn well wanted to possess, that was overkill. Literally. But it could have made some sense if Jean was really the Phoenix and not just a host. Or a role-model for a very impressionable Canary.

Really, I find most retcons very bad. Don't get me started in the Goblin Serum giving superpowers to whomever used it. I personally blame that for A) Overabundance of Goblins and B) The Return of Norman Osborn, which probably didn't mark the end of the believability of Spider-Man as an ongoing narrative (probably happened before), but it sure as hell made very clear that it was impossible to go from the Stan Lee/Steve Dikto Spider-Man to THAT Spider-Man following a straight line. But as this thread is about innocence and guilt, I will leave it at that.

[tigerkaya]

Retconns I like Avengers CC, it was the Green Lantern Rebirth for Scarlet Witch and I say to those that still think Wanda is guilty
I say to you "Your opinions are irrelevant." As to the reason, Scarlet Witch was used by a writer who wanted to go overkill on the old Avengers franchise he went further with House of M. So really ACC was a much needed retcon of those story.

Retcons I least liked. Everything by Bendis on Avengers.

[E. Wilson]

I don't know why, but Doombots tend to rub me the wrong way. I think it's because of what a petty, bickering genesis they have, which made me associate them less with "Dr. Doom's diabolical mastery!" and more with "behind the scenes pettiness at the Marvel Bullpen." And I've never been a big fan of Doom in the first place.

[Dkrook]

please lets remember to include how Bishop was retcon into an unstable closet zealot on a mission to was a little child. Forget all the mentoring and training he's done with jean other young mutants, and the trust he's earned fighting by the side of very powerful telepaths...and not one blip on their radar about him having a hard-on for little infant red-heads...???

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't know why, but Doombots tend to rub me the wrong way. I think it's because of what a petty, bickering genesis they have, which made me associate them less with "Dr. Doom's diabolical mastery!" and more with "behind the scenes pettiness at the Marvel Bullpen." And I've never been a big fan of Doom in the first place.

This, but with Starlin and Thanos. He nixed every single appearance he didn't write, like clockwork.

[tigerkaya]

This, but with Starlin and Thanos. He nixed every single appearance he didn't write, like clockwork.

With good reason, case in point Thanos appearance in Kazar.

[CJStriker]

Retconns I like Avengers CC, it was the Green Lantern Rebirth for Scarlet Witch and I say to those that still think Wanda is guilty
I say to you "Your opinions are irrelevant." As to the reason, Scarlet Witch was used by a writer who wanted to go overkill on the old Avengers franchise he went further with House of M. So really ACC was a much needed retcon of those story.

Retcons I least liked. Everything by Bendis on Avengers.

Great way to put it Tigerkaya, Nice Job.

I just got back into Comics the pasts year and CC was one of the first Mini-Series I read and it was Very Good. What Truly happen to Wanda is Greatly explained in those pages with a great story line and Magnificent Artwork. I even meet the guy at a recent Comic Book Convention last September that inked it, told him Very Good Job.

Any Fan of Wanda's and/or who wants to get the Truth behind what happen to her needs to read this Epic Recon Series. It was the first in the must needed clean-up job from the era of Bendis's utter mess. What he did to Wanda was not just Overkill, it was a character destruction on a scale only equal to Hal Jordan's Parolax event.

"Will We Finally Get Our Scarlet Witch Back?
The Scarlet Witch has returned in Avengers: The Children's Crusade #5. Dare we hope that she might finally be rehabilitated from her catastrophic character assassination?"
http://www.craveonline.com/comics/re...rens-crusade-5

If you do not have time and/or do not want to Read CC, here is the basic breakdown of what happend to Wanda: Alert SPOILER WARNING!!

Questions about Scarlet Witch's power in Children's Crusade & AvX:
http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/owie...-avx/87-83185/

[T Hedge Coke]

I don't know why, but Doombots tend to rub me the wrong way. I think it's because of what a petty, bickering genesis they have, which made me associate them less with "Dr. Doom's diabolical mastery!" and more with "behind the scenes pettiness at the Marvel Bullpen." And I've never been a big fan of Doom in the first place.

One of the best things in 1234 was the revelation that Doom frequently speaks and acts through his Doombots. Turns the "if it's too much, it's probably not really Doom" trope on its head. Doom can blame anything on a Doombot.

[SamSpade]

I think the worst for me was the whole Peter Parker unmasking, the deal with the devil to revive his aunt who was shot because of him revealing said identity. It was really annoying how they undid it all with Doctor Strange using magic so no one would know his identity again. I guess it was more of a soft reboot than an out and out retcon. So many things just jumped out of nowhere with people reappearing back to life. Overall, I'd call that a total disaster of a recon. Why can't super heroes just get divorced and totally dodge all of that hassle. So many people complain about the marriage thing, I was always more concerned with the total absurdity they used to get back to square one and make him single again.

[Iron Maiden]

One of the best things in 1234 was the revelation that Doom frequently speaks and acts through his Doombots. Turns the "if it's too much, it's probably not really Doom" trope on its head. Doom can blame anything on a Doombot.

I really hope it was Doom talking to Banner/Hulk through his Doombots in Aaron's IH "United"...if so, that was some epic trolling by Victor