View Poll Results: Which one is better: Earth 2 or Justice Society

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  • Earth 2

    99 53.80%
  • Pre 52 Justice Society of America

    85 46.20%
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  1. #151
    Elder Member Jeff Brady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deviates View Post
    Conduct a survey on how many adults know about the Bosnian Crisis, I alone can point to over a hundred students who could tell you in great detail.
    There's an important caveat to that: Conduct a survey on adults for whom knowing about the Bosnian Crisis puts a roof over their head, clothes on their back, and food in their stomach.

    Excluding history teachers, of course.

    Conduct another survey on those students 20 years later when it's no longer important to know this information for the sake of grades.
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  2. #152
    Senior Member Coyote2010's Avatar
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    I love the Pre 52 Golden Age Justice Society and the Post Crisis version as well.

    I think of New 52 Earth 2 as the 2012 model of Robinson's Golden Age. The best DC super team book isn't it?

  3. #153
    We have become death Deviates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Brady View Post
    There's an important caveat to that: Conduct a survey on adults for whom knowing about the Bosnian Crisis puts a roof over their head, clothes on their back, and food in their stomach.

    Excluding history teachers, of course.

    Conduct another survey on those students 20 years later when it's no longer important to know this information for the sake of grades.
    That's a totally different point about the relevance of certain knowledge to a working life, which like most subjects is about the skills you develop. How many people need to know the rainfall in Spain or how to solve quadratic equations?
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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deviates View Post
    That's a totally different point about the relevance of certain knowledge to a working life, which like most subjects is about the skills you develop. How many people need to know the rainfall in Spain or how to solve quadratic equations?
    Well, I don't know the average rainfall in Spain. But I know where most of it falls (Rex Harrison told me).

  5. #155
    Senior Member Volkditty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote2010 View Post
    I love the Pre 52 Golden Age Justice Society and the Post Crisis version as well.

    I think of New 52 Earth 2 as the 2012 model of Robinson's Golden Age. The best DC super team book isn't it?
    Right now I'd say it's a toss up between Earth 2 and Demon Knights for DC's best team book, but Demon Knights has a new writer coming up and Earth 2 has had to split its focus with world building in addition to the team elements. If/when the story focuses more on the JSA, there's no question it'll be the top spot.
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  6. #156
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    I adored Robinson's JSA, I didn't think I could enjoy any incarnation of those characters more. Prior to his handling of it there was good and there was bad for the JSA. But E2 has quickly become my absolutely favorite comic (Sorry, Invincible!) JB has taken what he learned and done the unthinkable, improved upon it. Too bad the whole NEw 52 relaunch couldn't have taken as many chances as he has with this book.
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volkditty View Post
    Right now I'd say it's a toss up between Earth 2 and Demon Knights for DC's best team book, but Demon Knights has a new writer coming up and Earth 2 has had to split its focus with world building in addition to the team elements. If/when the story focuses more on the JSA, there's no question it'll be the top spot.
    Have to agree.
    Last edited by Jay!; 11-20-2012 at 07:20 AM.

  8. #158
    We have become death Deviates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    Well, I don't know the average rainfall in Spain. But I know where most of it falls (Rex Harrison told me).
    The song is completely wrong, though. A pox on the youth of yesterday for their lack of curiosity and general education...
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schnitzy Pretzelpants View Post
    How dare you, sir!

    How dare you!

    Leave me to my generalization and unsubstantiated drivel if you please!

    Which is my way of conceding that you made a valid point, and I concede. I've just had some frustrating experiences lately where I am kind of gob-smacked by the lack of knowledge and curiosity that I have encountered, of course it is only true for some, not all.

    The man who trained me to teach once said that it is a commonly held belief among SOME adults that the youth of today is not a smart or driven as they were when they were younger. Generally these people are intelligent individuals who received a good education. The reason those people notice a lack of driven or intelligent students these days is because they are not as sheltered from that element as they were when they received their good education. They existed when they were younger, it's just that generally you have disaffected areas creating schools with a higher concentration of disaffected students. His opinion may not be completely accurate but I think there is an element of truth to it.

    I can understand how personal experiences could influence your opinion but with it being a commonly held attitude (especially around GCSE and A-Level results days in the UK) in the media and by many of the public it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I may come across slightly defensive on this issue and to tell you the truth I am. But on a daily basis I see incredibly intelligent students with a thirst for knowledge and a work ethic that puts many adults I know to shame. Rarely does a day go by that I'm not genuinely impressed or humbled by my students. Their biggest issue? Self confidence and giving themselves the credit they deserve. Perpetuating these sorts of attitudes doesn't help.
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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    All I can speak to is my own experience. I have a 20 yr old stepdaughter who is not curious about anything outside the normal teenage/young adult experience and has been that way ever since she was a child. I also have a 10 yr old daughter who is ravenously curious about everything.

    Some kids/youths are curious, others aren't. Samples can skew one way or another. Basic human nature hasn't changed.
    Essentially my point, the children are the same as they ever were but teaching methods have come on leaps and bounds.
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  11. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deviates View Post
    The man who trained me to teach once said that it is a commonly held belief among SOME adults that the youth of today is not a smart or driven as they were when they were younger. Generally these people are intelligent individuals who received a good education. The reason those people notice a lack of driven or intelligent students these days is because they are not as sheltered from that element as they were when they received their good education. They existed when they were younger, it's just that generally you have disaffected areas creating schools with a higher concentration of disaffected students. His opinion may not be completely accurate but I think there is an element of truth to it.

    I can understand how personal experiences could influence your opinion but with it being a commonly held attitude (especially around GCSE and A-Level results days in the UK) in the media and by many of the public it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I may come across slightly defensive on this issue and to tell you the truth I am. But on a daily basis I see incredibly intelligent students with a thirst for knowledge and a work ethic that puts many adults I know to shame. Rarely does a day go by that I'm not genuinely impressed or humbled by my students. Their biggest issue? Self confidence and giving themselves the credit they deserve. Perpetuating these sorts of attitudes doesn't help.
    If you come across as defensive, then I think in a sense you have every right to be. You are in the trenches, and working with kids everyday - honestly, it's how someone who chooses education should be in regards to their students (which is not to imply that you're being an apologist).

    So, to make sure I understand what you were saying, or repeating in that theory, the theory suggests that because I DID receive a good education, formal or otherwise, I was surrounded by (mostly) like-minded people. Now that I am NOT as surrounded by such people, I am more aware that there are 'others' out there, who don't share these interests (or at least do a helluva good job of masking it if they do)?

    That sounds like a theory that holds water to me.

    It doesn't help that I am actor either - I did my training at one of the better theatre schools in the UK, and now find myself in North America, and at times surrounded by people who seem to be incapable or show interest in the historical context of well...history, let alone the history of the playwrights and authors we work on.

    Even that paragraph is a generalization intensified by a few apples who seemed to almost bask in their ignorance, if only to be contrarians. Even if they don't know what a contrarian is.

    The funny thing for me is that while I may have received a good education when I was in grade school, and certainly what I learned at theatre school was very informative, and contained much history, the bulk of my 'education' is really self-taught, from reading and experience. I did two years only of my undergrad in history and poli-science before deciding that I really needed to 'run away and join the circus'(pursue my dream of being an actor).

    I think this is why I am tad more impatient with certain people than I have a right to be; I don't see myself as being innately intelligent - clever, absolutely. Tenacious, yes indeed - but I was always curious and catholic in my interests so, if I felt curious about something, by god, I sought out a book and read about that interest.

    Another thing I miss dearly about living in London for those years: the booksellers that would set up their tables along the banks of the Thames on the Southbank! They always had such an eclectic assortment of used books that I was always bound to find something that nicely dovetailed into some historical or scientific curiosity I had.

    BTW - I do love the irony that someone clearly as intelligent, and well-reasoned and nuanced as you are, has Guy Gardiner as his avatar. He's one of my more favourite characters too, though he's almost 100% opposed to everything I hold dear.
    Last edited by Schnitzy Pretzelpants; 11-20-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  12. #162
    We have become death Deviates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schnitzy Pretzelpants View Post
    If you come across as defensive, then I think in a sense you have every right to be. You are in the trenches, and working with kids everyday - honestly, it's how someone who chooses education should be in regards to their students (which is not to imply that you're being an apologist).
    Thanks, it feels like a duty sometimes. I think the problem some people may have is they will see these kids when they are out in public with their guards up or out with friends being kids. Teachers see them at their best and get a chance to recognise their full potential.

    So, to make sure I understand what you were saying, or repeating in that theory, is that because I did receive a good education, formal or otherwise, I was surrounded by (mostly) like-minded people. Now that I am NOT as surrounded by such people, I am more aware that there are 'others' out there, who don't share these interests (or at least do a helluva good job of masking it if they do)?

    That sounds like a theory that holds water to me.
    That's the idea in essence, yes. It's a simplification as you'll get disaffected students in all schools but the concentration of them is higher in deprived areas. I've experienced this in the schools I've worked in and those I attended as a child.

    It doesn't help that I am actor either - I did my training at one of the better theatre schools in the UK, and now find myself in North America, and at times surrounded by people who seem to be incapable or show interest in the historical context of well...history, let alone the history of the playwrights and authors we work on.

    Even that paragraph is a generalization intensified by a few apples who seemed to almost bask in their ignorance, if only to be contrarians. Even if they don't know what a contrarian is.
    I teach in the UK but I have friends who teach in Ireland, the US, Canada and Australia. All of them can cite similar experiences, no matter where you go you will find those who became disaffected by education, or those who bask in their ignorance which often goes hand in hand with the 'I didn't pay attention in school and it didn't do me no harm' attitude of certain parents I've had to speak with in the past. The only difference is the numbers and levels of disaffection.
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schnitzy Pretzelpants View Post
    BTW - I do love the irony that someone clearly as intelligent, and well-reasoned and nuanced as you are, has Guy Gardiner as his avatar. He's one of my more favourite characters too, though he's almost 100% opposed to everything I hold dear.
    Before he suffered the brain injury which altered his personality, Guy Gardner was a teacher.

  14. #164

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    JSA.

    I'm sure earth2 is fine and all, and will have plenty to develop over time that will appeal to many people.

    But it loses the old school charm that JSA had. The JSA (from what I've read and seen) was like a perfect analogue of super hero comics, spanning from the golden age to more modern tales. People shoo away the classic appeal because they feel it doesn't apply to them and was from an older time that had very different conventions about it that are archaic by today's standards, which is true.

    But it was also a bridging title that allowed various characters to find themselves amongst the lore of old and make it new again. There were old guys who knew a different day and age and tried to apply their old school values in a very different world, and there were new characters dealing with the legacy's of their predecessors and how it could be applied to their own lives. Pre crisis the title must just a have been average fair for the time, but in the 21st century it came to mean much more than that.

    No matter what Earth2 might do, it has no shot at accomplishing that. Once again I'm sure there can be great stories made about the current set up, but completely modernizing a group based on past present and future seems like a huge missed opportunity. Honestly if they wanted the JSA gone from the mainstream DCU, they should have had it where the old heroes were still around for al those years. Hell, maybe there would be replacements of Jay and Alan with the two as mentors.

    I just don't think what they can do with earth2 is anywhere near as compelling as what the old JSA could do. I'm not just going to dismiss new stuff as crap solely because it changes things, but that doesn't mean I'll just accept the new without looking back at what was, especially when the new changes something that was integral to what made the old great. Earth 2 can be the best damn book out there, but by going with a "we need to modernize in order to appeal to the next generation!" motif they forgotten that it was the older parts interacting with the new that was what made the last version so cool and appealing, even to a generation that wasn't there when these guys were supposedly doing their thing.

    That and I hate the generic as all get out costumes of earth2. I still don't get why Jay has that stupid helmet in place of his old hermes inspired one. People find the older one stupid, but personally I find it amazing; even if the wind should knock it off it stays put, a perfect metaphor for ludicrousness of the golden age. Now jay looks like he's a about to go on the tour de france for some reason. I really don't like ANY of the new looks, the golden age esq. looks were way better.
    Last edited by T.M. Anthony; 11-20-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.M. Anthony View Post
    JSA.

    I'm sure earth2 is fine and all, and will have plenty to develop over time that will appeal to many people.

    But it loses the old school charm that JSA had. The JSA (from what I've read and seen) was like a perfect analogue of super hero comics, spanning from the golden age to more modern tales. People shoo away the classic appeal because they feel it doesn't apply to them and was from an older time that had very different conventions about it that are archaic by today's standards, which is true.

    But it was also a bridging title that allowed various characters to find themselves amongst the lore of old and make it new again. There were old guys who knew a different day and age and tried to apply their old school values in a very different world, and there were new characters dealing with the legacy's of their predecessors and how it could be applied to their own lives. Pre crisis the title must just a have been average fair for the time, but in the 21st century it came to mean much more than that.

    No matter what Earth2 might do, it has no shot at accomplishing that. Once again I'm sure there can be great stories made about the current set up, but completely modernizing a group based on past present and future seems like a huge missed opportunity. Honestly if they wanted the JSA gone from the mainstream DCU, they should have had it where the old heroes were still around for al those years. Hell, maybe there would be replacements of Jay and Alan with the two as mentors.

    I just don't think what they can do with earth2 is anywhere near as compelling as what the old JSA could do. I'm not just going to dismiss new stuff as crap solely because it changes things, but that doesn't mean I'll just accept the new without looking back at what was, especially when the new changes something that was integral to what made the old great. Earth 2 can be the best damn book out there, but by going with a "we need to modernize in order to appeal to the next generation!" motif they forgotten that it was the older parts interacting with the new that was what made the last version so cool and appealing, even to a generation that wasn't there when these guys were supposedly doing their thing.
    The pre-Crisis JSA stories were far from just "average". All that stuff about an older generation of heroes applying their values to the modern world and inspiring a new generation of heroes was very much present in the 70s All-Star Comics/Adventure Comics series, and then, of course, in Infinity Inc from 1983 onwards.

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