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  1. #46
    Duck Dude Donald M.'s Avatar
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    Hah, the real geeks are the ones sitting in a dirty cage covered in their own filth, biting the heads off chickens. Everyone else is just a sad pretender.

  2. #47
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald M. View Post
    Hah, the real geeks are the ones sitting in a dirty cage covered in their own filth, biting the heads off chickens. Everyone else is just a sad pretender.
    haha it seems that way sometime

    the mindset is they have "put in the work" and been ostracized for it, and now people (not just women) are using the genre to further their own image....someone forgot to tell the fandom that people doing that doesn't really affect them
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  3. #48
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    Women selling comics at a booth are paid to be there. Even in costume, I wouldn't call them cosplayers. They are doing a job, and that job is not prostitution. Blame the comics retailer, or blame the sad nerds who fall for it. That type of tactic is employed across all industries as well. Ever get a look at a waitress in a sports bar? Ever see an AXE commercial?
    which is why I commend PAX for not having "booth babes"...and I think now that this conversation is being had, some might think twice about employing them

    Ive never been a fan of cosplay, not my thing but Harris was out of line
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  4. #49
    Insanity is colorblind Mecegirl's Avatar
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    How else are these girls supposed to dress? Are they supposed to only pick super heroines who wear "modest" costumes? Most super heroines wear skin tight clothes. In superhero land that is modest, but it does not translate well in real life, and I guess that's part of the problem. But how many super heroines wear looser clothes or don't show a lot of cleavage? Outside of that if a girl goes to a con dressed as Sue Storm she could still be accused of wanting to show off but at least she wouldn't be as bad off as a Storm cosplayer.

    What if a girl wanted wear the current Wonder Woman costume? Should she be thankful that it at least the bottoms are cut like boy shorts instead of briefs? What about the new Supergirl costume? Should someone assume that a girl chose to cosplay those two characters because they wanted to show skin? What if they know and love the characters? If not for the fact that both ladies are invulnerable it is odd, considering their personalities and fighting styles, that they show more skin than Catwoman. The new Captain Marvel's costume change is going over well enough but some would prefer her old one. Which one better fits a superhero that used to be in the military? And how long until they change it back to the leotard? At least that fight wasn't as bad as it gets whenever someone tries to put Wonder Woman in pants (and the pants are always skin tight anyway.) In part the female costumes are designed to appeal to the male audience...It should be no suprize that when real women put them on that those women get attention.

    As far as geek oppression is concerned I've gotten more shit from other geeks over the racial and sexist issues that still pop up in our beloved genre than from outsiders. I've also met my fair share of genuine female geeks that tired of being suspect because of their gender. It's happened to me as well and it's really disheartening.


    Last edited by Mecegirl; 11-14-2012 at 06:12 AM.

  5. #50
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbull in a skirt View Post
    His beef seems to mainly focus on pretty girls not being open to being with geeks...which is strange because as far as I know, cons are not for dating are they?
    kinda lately...NYCC has had speed dating the past 2-3 years, and I have been to SDCC 4 times and hooked up 3 times

    you'd be surprised how inviting a hotel room not crowded with 4 or 5 people can be
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  6. #51
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    Harris hurts his point with the anger and defensiveness, but there's some truth to what he's saying (I emphasize "some").

    Check out this article by Maddox: http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/...ure_not_a_nerd

    I think this article kind of ties into Harris' complaint. Faking nerdiness to be cool or sexy is kinda stupid to an extent.

    I do admit, however, that you don't have to read comics to like comic book characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mecegirl View Post
    Yeah..that is part of the problem as well. It's pretty pathetic in my opinion and that's what makes it shocking that this guy has been nominated for Eisner awards. At least he hasn't won any.
    Honestly, what you say here is pretty pathetic. Eisner awards are not given out based on Facebook posts. Harris has been nominated because he's a great artist. I recommend looking at his work before dismissing it so ignorantly.

  7. #52
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    if people don't agree with Harris, that's fine

    to say his work is somehow invalid because of that opinion is silly IMO
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  8. #53
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Cronin View Post
    Yeah, I really love the attempt to somehow work Harris' artistic technique into a discussion about how he said some stupid stuff.

    Him saying something stupid/offensive =/= His artistic technique.

    Tony Harris takes photographs and then draws from his own photographs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that from an artistic standpoint.

    Give him crap for his views, but his art is fine.

    -Brian
    There is nothing wrong with his photo-tracing except for the fact that it often doesn't look like artwork, it looks like somebody traced a photo. The fact that he takes those photos himself elevates his work far above Greg Land and Salvador Larocca, but doesn't exactly put him on par with artists who simply draw. I like his covers, but I often find his interior art to be mediocre.

    His tirade about cosplay girls doesn't seem like a big deal, just a standard get-off-my-lawn rant by somebody who has had a few drinks.
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  9. #54
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    There is nothing wrong with his photo-tracing except for the fact that it often doesn't look like artwork, it looks like somebody traced a photo. The fact that he takes those photos himself elevates his work far above Greg Land and Salvador Larocca, but doesn't exactly put him on par with artists who simply draw. I like his covers, but I often find his interior art to be mediocre.

    His tirade about cosplay girls doesn't seem like a big deal, just a standard get-off-my-lawn rant by somebody who has had a few drinks.
    it IS a big deal, as these attacks on women (and that's what they are) are becoming more and more prevalent as the genre grows in popularity..and its not just comics, its also happening in online gaming - look up the Cross Assault incident
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  10. #55
    Magnificent Bastard worstblogever's Avatar
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    Seriously, they give out Academy Awards for costuming. They give out a big award after a whole show counting down the best of it at SDCC. I don't know WTF Harris' problem is for attacking people that are, in their own ways, expressing themselves artistically. It's a little mean-spirited, and most of his complaints seem to be "You're not that f***ing hot, ladies."

    Which, don't know why he's generalizing so much. For f***'s sake, Wendy Pini was an old-school cosplayer as Red Sonja before she was famous as the creator of Elfquest. Don't know why he's felt others at cons are preyed on by them for having the nerve to look for, and get attention based on their appearance, but there it is. Whatever he was trying to say about the psychology of those who cosplay to build their confidence, this has shown a lot more about his own insecurities.
    Last edited by worstblogever; 11-14-2012 at 08:44 AM.

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  11. #56
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    While Harris' viewpoint is inarticulate, I'm not sure you could call this an attack on women, at least not in the vein of that recent Black Cat incident. Harris does point out at the beginning of his rant that he's not talking about all women who cosplay. And who knows? Perhaps he would be on the Black Cat's side. We can't say for sure.

  12. #57
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    While Harris' viewpoint is inarticulate, I'm not sure you could call this an attack on women, at least not in the vein of that recent Black Cat incident. Harris does point out at the beginning of his rant that he's not talking about all women who cosplay. And who knows? Perhaps he would be on the Black Cat's side. We can't say for sure.
    Id concede that...his bigger issue (which I kind of agree with but understand why) is people that use the genre to either get attention and promote their own image...and that issue kind of gets lost in the "damn girls, get out of my clubhouse" ranting
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  13. #58
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    Also, did anyone notice that he's Tony "Effing" Harris on Facebook? Perhaps he's ALWAYS drunk when he gets online.

  14. #59
    The Ag equals Silver AgPhoenix's Avatar
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    Default We were discussing this very subject...

    In a Chat Room I frequent, yesterday and it got quite heated with people slinging out the usual statements in an effort to both defend and slander what Tony Harris said. After some introspection and time to sleep on it, I've come to multiple takeaways.

    Firstly (and this should be damn obvious to anyone), you and I don't get the right to label a girl in a sexy costume, just because she's in a sexy costume.

    Secondly, if we were to carry the statement "real nerds" to it's ugliest conclusion, then EVERYONE that isn't a White Male would eventually not be a "real nerd" because of their otherism.

    Thirdly, how do you call out someone being "fake" without looking like an asshole? I mean, whatever happened to finding something that interested you and going from there? Why should there be a cred test to join the nerd/geek community?

    Finally, and this is where things get controversial, I'm beginning to think that Political Correctness isn't the grand enemy of discourse. No, "I'm beginning to think that it's the incessant need for civility towards thoughts, ideas and beliefs that reasonably intelligent people shouldn't hold on to, especially after they've been proven wrong.

    Now, this doesn't mean that Political Correctness can't go too far, nor does it mean to dismiss every idea and thought that's wrong, because people can be talked and reasoned out of a less than enlightened point. Hell, the less enlightened point can point out something wrong with the more enlightened point. What this does mean, is that I feel proper discourse requires us to understand and respect the differences of those we interact with, and at the same time, to be able to dismiss wrong-headed ideas without reprisal.
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  15. #60
    Hey, Larry! Darrell D.'s Avatar
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    It sounds like it's more, 'Damn, get out of my office, I am trying to work here' but it is just articulated so, so poorly.
    Fuck it, can't say I give a shit one way or the other. I don't care about cosplayers, same way I don't care about Twilight fans. They don't bother me, because I avoid them.

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