Tony Harris on real geeks.

[Spike-X]

I feel like I've been lucky. I never got picked on for liking comics. I stopped buying them all through my teens and most of my 20's, but I continued to draw and kept a handful of my favorites on hand to read and re read. I don't think there was a time where people in my circle didn't know I liked comics.

I've never felt the need to hide it.

If somebody wants to pick on me for reading comics*, I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm the one who needs to grow up a bit.



* Which has never happened and, as I'm now in my early 40s, is unlikely ever to occur.

[tony ingram]

Well sure. But it's also possible to say you don't want to buy something because of the person behind it, without retroactively denigrating the quality of the work itself. Still might not want to buy it out of personal concerns, but it doesn't make Ex Machina anything less than what it was.

Exactly. He was nominated for those awards because his work was good enough to warrant it. That's all that matters, from that point of view.

[T Hedge Coke]

Tony Harris is an awesome artist.

But yeah, his comments were dumb. Then again, there are quite a bit of artists out there who have done the same, and I still buy their work due to their quality unless it's clear that they had a major influence on the direction of the work (ie: McDaniels on Static).

I hold writers to a different standard, because one's beliefs do seep into their work one way or another.

The artist's beliefs can just as easily come into their work, which is one reason Scott McDaniel tends to be a co-plotter, co-storyteller. But even in small ways; look at the way different artists draw the same scene or moment, even if they're homaging, and you can see what interests the penciler at that moment coming in often enough. Back in the day, in New X-Men, Quitely and Jimenez drew the same moment back to back, of Scott and Emma being caught in the act by Jean, and the way Quitely handles Scott is very different from how Jimenez does him, both in terms of body type and body language, in part because they apparently interpret the character differently, but also, I'd wager, because Jimenez has shown a predilection to downplaying his male bodies. When someone chooses to foreground an ass instead of a face, that's the artist's beliefs coming into play. When they choose to draw nothing but people of a particular ethnicity or style, that's their beliefs coming into play. How they represent a particular ethnicity or style, how they address physical elements or prominence of men or women, is them having a substantial, if difficult to always readily acknowledge, influence on the overall comic.

We too readily ignore how much visualization, visual representation or exclusion really counts, especially with a talented and considered artist, which Harris is, despite his idiotic and hateful statements of late.

[T Hedge Coke]

It's important to focus on this not being just a Tony Harris issue (while not letting him off the hook simply because others think the same way).

I love/hate/no-actually-hate that I'm seeing Ann Nocenti called to task or dismissed, right now, for saying she wanted to tribute Kubert, "the creator of Hawkman." She's clearly not a real fan, a real comics person, or she'd know how untrue that is! It's almost as if she's thinking of the silver age Hawkman as the Hawkman and everyone knows, Hawkman must mean the golden age Hawkman, just like when we talk about Flash or GL we mean ol' pie-plate-hat and the two time winner of Most Garish Costume of the Decade, not Hal or Barry (or Kyle or Wally).

I've seen enough male pros and fans refer to the golden age new characters with those old names, and I can't think of one time when a guy has been taken to task for suggesting Broome or Kane created Green Lantern instead of Martin Nodell.

[Spike-X]

Suddenly I'm getting flashbacks to MoTA excoriating Gail Simone for not being deeply familiar with the minutae of the continuity of every DC Comic ever published, back when she first started writing for them, and before he found out what his doodle was really for.

[king mob]

there was a cosplayer known as I will just say...Barbarella. Those who know know. and at a few cons..specifically those in the Uk. She used to straight up exchange gifts for favors. If she goes off..Im giving her your name. because you wanted specifics.

Now what?

If it's the same person I think you're on about then they're a well known groupie and yes, the story is that she does put out in return for favours but this is just one bit of pub gossip that it's dangerous to throw out online just like all the other bits of pub gossip that it's best to keep in the pub. That isn't to say that some female fans don't put out easily and act like groupies, some do, but you can't then accuse all female fans of acting like groupies, or all cosplayers are doing the same.

Now I'm not a huge fan of how cosplay has taken over cons and expos, and I really don't think they're as harmless to the industry as many seem to think but you do need to be careful slagging them off as a whole on the back of spurious gossip.

[T Hedge Coke]

As Busiek said, complaining some cosplayers are using folks is one thing, making this specifically an issue about women is something else.

Busiek was on point.

"If it was about cosplay, you’d include guys, and you wouldn’t judge knowledge on looks. It’s about judging and excluding women," was on point, as was saying that insisting "women who aren’t interested in sleeping with male fans don’t belong" was creepy.

[worstblogever]

Well sure. But it's also possible to say you don't want to buy something because of the person behind it, without retroactively denigrating the quality of the work itself. Still might not want to buy it out of personal concerns, but it doesn't make Ex Machina anything less than what it was.

Kind of like how some people the past few months have gone, "Y'know, I can't do it anymore. Chik-Fil-A makes hands down, the best f***ing chicken sandwich that has ever landed on my taste buds, and been digested within this humble body. But they're owned by homophobic d-bags, so I'm not eating there."

[jesse_custer]

I don't really care what people refuse to buy based on this, that, or the other, but ultimately, you're always going to be buying something from someone who has less than savory views about something. I choose not to get worked up over it.

No he didn't. Tony Harris did a massive block of text with BIG FULL CAPS and sweeping generalisations and sexism, in response to a problem that doesn't really exist outside of his head. Kurt Busiek posted six sentences spread across three tweets, one of which had a naughty word in it, in response to comments Harris made that were sexist. One is losing his cool a lot more than the other.

Going by what I know about Harris, it's not totally unheard of for him to get online and go drunk crazy about something. I've never seen Busiek say anything mean. So it's all relative, I guess.

[Charles RB]

No, what he is complaining about, if you read his post, is sexy cosplayers not doing this.

And in ALL CAPS, just so he'd be sure we'd get it.

I love/hate/no-actually-hate that I'm seeing Ann Nocenti called to task or dismissed, right now, for saying she wanted to tribute Kubert, "the creator of Hawkman." She's clearly not a real fan, a real comics person, or she'd know how untrue that is! It's almost as if she's thinking of the silver age Hawkman as the Hawkman and everyone knows, Hawkman must mean the golden age Hawkman, just like when we talk about Flash or GL we mean ol' pie-plate-hat and the two time winner of Most Garish Costume of the Decade, not Hal or Barry (or Kyle or Wally).

Oh god, seriously? That's a real thing?

[tony ingram]

It's important to focus on this not being just a Tony Harris issue (while not letting him off the hook simply because others think the same way).

I love/hate/no-actually-hate that I'm seeing Ann Nocenti called to task or dismissed, right now, for saying she wanted to tribute Kubert, "the creator of Hawkman." She's clearly not a real fan, a real comics person, or she'd know how untrue that is! It's almost as if she's thinking of the silver age Hawkman as the Hawkman and everyone knows, Hawkman must mean the golden age Hawkman, just like when we talk about Flash or GL we mean ol' pie-plate-hat and the two time winner of Most Garish Costume of the Decade, not Hal or Barry (or Kyle or Wally).

When I talk about those characters, it's Jay and Alan I'm talking about. And, indeed, Golden Age Carter. Nocenti is showing her ignorance.

[Michael P]

That's it. I'm done. I'm out. You guys can have the word "nerd" and all the baggage that comes with it. I'll be over here, enjoying stuff.

[Vibranium]

When I talk about those characters, it's Jay and Alan I'm talking about. And, indeed, Golden Age Carter. Nocenti is showing her ignorance.

what? what kind of sense does that make?

I started reading GL when I was 8-9 yrs old because I thought the ring was cool....I didn't even know about Alan Scott until I was in my teens, but when I think Green Lantern I think Hal Jordan

does that mean Im ignorant too?

[T Hedge Coke]

Oh god, seriously? That's a real thing?

One of the instances is right here on these forums (the DC one), but it seems prevalent enough people must believe in it.

[T Hedge Coke]

what? what kind of sense does that make?

I'm pretty sure tony's just messing around.