LIVE: Hopeless Battles To The Death In "Avengers Arena"

[Game Show]

Oh please. He can border on annoying, but he isn't hurting anyone with his sometimes delusional rantings. If anything, he spices up the joint.

Besides, if you don't like him you can always use that nifty little ignore feature we all have.

The problem wasn't just S/D, but others continually pushing his buttons to keep him riled up, often admittely for their own entertainment

Being a teen, I've gotta say there's a theme that speaks to me about books like this and the Hunger Games. I'm on the verge of no longer being a minor, and there's a really big sense (both in my life and the lives of some of my friends) that we're being thrown into a world by adult society, with no clue how to handle a lot of the stuff we're facing in a world we are unfamiliar with. Coming of age really resembles- at least to me- getting thrown into these situations like some of my favorite heroes (X-23, Nico Minoru) are right now. It's relatable, at least for a teenage market. That's why I'll definitely be picking this up.

I'm curious, did you find teenage heroes unrelatable before Arena?

The premise makes it a murder-fest, as does his first interview on the book. I think this interview is just a sop to fans reactions o to this BS.

Did everyone who keeps saying this skip the very first interview he did on Marvel's site when the series was announced? He kept trying to talk up how it won't be about characters dying only to then hype up how there will be lots of murder. I imagine he is only trying to die down that aspect now in interviews at least because of how man people it pissed off. At this point I would take it with a grain of salt that it won't be a murderfest. He may not be offing characters every issue, but most of them will probably die by the end of this.

Exactly. These are direct quotes from Hopeless himself, even the italics used are from him
"I don’t want to give too much away, but I can promise a lot of murder in this new Murder World."
"Not sure if we made it clear yet, but people die in this book."
"It's sort of ridiculous how huge our cast is at the start. But if you're going to kill a lot of characters you gotta have a lot of characters."
This is the tone they wanted to set from day 1. They are aware of the backlash. They have softened their death proclamations in subsequent interviews, including the one that started this thread. I wonder why...

[Willow616]

I'm really looking forward to this, I really like Hopeless work on Legion of Monsters. I am a bit worried about stereotyping the Braddock Academy kids with the 'posh school' label. Not all of us in Britain are landed gentry....but I'll give it a shot. Just please Odin don't let the characterisations be as bad as Remenders recent Captain Britain assissination in Secret Avengers.

I thought his powers were based on brandy? Are you sure you're not thinking of Gladiator?

Here we go again....''Captain Britain is an alcoholic''....''His powers only work in the UK''....the same repeated false memes on these boards .

No mate his power is confidence based as was revealed in the excellent and sadly lost Captain Britain and MI13. Yep he likes a drink every now and then, he's a Brit, we culturally have a different relationship with alcohol than some other nations.

Then again..............Remender has virtually retconned everything good about the character since the mid nineties.......although the latest issue of Secret Avengers did finally repair some damage.

His powers got changed in MI:13. He has the Gladiator effect with his powers now. I thought it was limited to just being in Britain, but I guess that changed. His powers get stronger depending on his confidence level now. Thats why he was doubting himself ad naseum over in Secret Avengers when they were fighting Captain Marvel/Phoenix.

The whole 'powers work in Britain' thing was something that Claremont introduced in Excalibur that never made any sense at all. It's like Steve Rogers not being able to throw the shield outside of the US. Previous to that Captain Britain had been globe trotting over in his own series without no trouble. He's meant to be the Protector of this reality.....makes no sense for him only to be able to fight on my tiny dark little island

Thankfully thats been sorted again now and the fact that Brian was fighting in outer space during AvX should finally have done away with that............and yep......enough with the whining about your confidence man! Stiff upper lip sunshine!

Back to this though I'm really interested in seeing how Darkhawk works in this. I'm a big fan of the guy and did like the comment that he could win outright but he's restraining himself. I suppose at the end of the day the main question is - why are they fighting? Just being told to by Arcade so that they can escape doesn't seem enough of a reason.....there must be something else to it....

I'm also looking forward to seeing the outside worlds reaction to where the kids have gone.....will there be some detective work going on? Will we eventually see some of the adults crashing into this looking for their kids?

The Clockwork Orange cover rocks.

[0bsessions]

So can we assume Hazmat is one of the first killed, seeing as X-23 is still around a few issues and from the preview art that was who she was fighting.

Isn't there a cover with her fighting Deathlockette too? Honestly, a lot of the images give me the impression Hazmat's going to be a pretty central character to the ongoing arc.

I've said it before and this interview affirms my belief: I see a lot of LOST in the premise. There'll be deaths, sure, but I think people overestimate the volume. It's kind of hard to bring in readers when you don't maintain a consistent cast. See Song of Ice and Fire past the third book, when most people effectively stopped giving a shit.

Gateway, Jaime Braddock, original Famine, and Archangel also died. I'd be shocked if Daken survives the end of the current series. Everyone else who has died either came from AOA or was created by Remender, but regardless quite a few people have died in the series.

Let me ammend that to "characters who weren't already dead or that anyone gave a shit about."

Gateway got killed, but that was after Remender brought him back from the dead with no mention of how he survived being attacked by the Maurauders leading up to Messiah Complex.

Nobody ever in the history of the world gave a damn about Famine. Hell, I was suprised she was even still around. I sincerely don't remember having seen her since X-Cutioner's song.

Jamie's died and come back something like three or four times now, Remender gets a pass there.

Archangel was back from the dead literally within two pages. He has amnesia, hard to count that.

And if Daken does die (Which I honestly doubt), he falls into the same realm as Gateway, wasn't he killed off prior to showing up in UXF anyway?

But yeah, it cycles back to my point: regardless of the premise, there's been very little legitimate cannon fodder. Fantomex, a character who hadn't really even made an appearance since Morrison's run, has been the biggest character to really die in that title.

[Luck911]

Let me ammend that to "characters who weren't already dead or that anyone gave a shit about."

Gateway got killed, but that was after Remender brought him back from the dead with no mention of how he survived being attacked by the Maurauders leading up to Messiah Complex.

Nobody ever in the history of the world gave a damn about Famine. Hell, I was suprised she was even still around. I sincerely don't remember having seen her since X-Cutioner's song.

Jamie's died and come back something like three or four times now, Remender gets a pass there.

Archangel was back from the dead literally within two pages. He has amnesia, hard to count that.

And if Daken does die (Which I honestly doubt), he falls into the same realm as Gateway, wasn't he killed off prior to showing up in UXF anyway?

But yeah, it cycles back to my point: regardless of the premise, there's been very little legitimate cannon fodder. Fantomex, a character who hadn't really even made an appearance since Morrison's run, has been the biggest character to really die in that title.

Thank you now i don't have to post this,Remender has never killed major somebody without leaving a replacement Apoccy Kid, Antman,Angel and Fantomex all got replace by Black Ant, Amnesia Angel, Genesis and Eva.The biggest people Remender has killed without replacing is Toxin, John Steele and AoA iceman and Blob.Since we taking about X-force specifially all remender has killed in alternate world characters Sunfire,iceman,blob and people who are limbo like Jamie,Gateway,and Famine and fodder like his new horsemen

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

While true, there is bound to be a number of people wearing red shirts in the cast, since (sadly) someone has to be the one to make Arcade look serious. Question is who and how many of them?

I only see at most two of the Braddock Academy kids surviving. Excluding Juston who's a forgone conclusion at this point, they'll probably take out one more of the Academy kids. I think we'll also wind up with a new Darkhawk out of this, probably Cammi. It'd be a huge waste to bring her back from space for Murderworld and not keep her around.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Okay. I'm back, and all that, and I yes, I got banned for getting too worked up about this thread and doing personal attacks on posters. I've calmed down now, and I just want to say all this and be done with Avengers Arena nonsense.
First of all, these three points (apologize in advance if a swear or two is used):






No matter how many times they keep saying "This book is more than death" and "This book will develop the characters fully," the book still proudly boosts that "15 of your favorite characters are going to be battling to the death." Why do they think fans of these characters will like that? Why do they think that this "celebration" of a sick premise is something that is a good direction? It comes across less of "We want to write the best story we can" to "Let's trim the herd of teenage characters because we want people to become fans of Avengers and Space Aveng-I mean, Guardians of the Galaxy."

But you can't do that. No matter how much they keep saying over and over again that this will be a great story and develop these characters, they're still dying in masses for Arcade. Their lives as heroes are all ending pitifully for Arcade's sick goals. There's no metaphor there. There is no "Oh, it's about how the adults use the next generation." It's Arcade being a sick bastard. No matter how much the book will try to drive there is meaning to these deaths and that these characters are having their lives cut down, it's still Arcade doing this. Someone that Hopeless wants "respected."

And that goes back to the post above. Why is it that readers who jump into comics must see the characters that got them into comics die for a 30 year old joke character? "Sorry about losing your favorite, but look! The Scarlet Witch is all over the flagship Marvel title, even though you probably never read her because she was written out of comics 5 years before you started, and we kinda taught you to hate her, but now we want you to love her again." It's this constant whiplash that fans should go from getting attached to these new characters, then one writer comes along and says they aren't good enough and slams down his belief that a character who wasn't used much should now "Be taken seriously and be the main focus." It's still Arcade. The moment he starts killing, he's now officially a Joker knock off.

And from these previews and things, I really don't get that Hopeless is loving these characters for the right reasons. He's saying how cool Cammi and Darkhawk are, waving their guns and deathblades at the other kids. He calls X-23 "Wolverine's Killer Clone". His covers, though good homages, are not doing the characters any favors. If this was supposed to be a "dark and hallowing" book, then why do "X-23 vs. Darkhawk! Rumble in the Jungle! XD!!!!" How can you take the book with a straight face and have a teenager die and suddenly get the next issue of "Oh look! Hunger Games! XD! Aren't we so clever?!" That removes the idea they are treating these characters seriously, and instead just having a good frolic killing off these kids. Imagine if after the Death of Captain America, the next cover of the book was the Avengers posing like the Breakfast Club. Again, it's a whiplash of tone.

And speaking of tone:

"..but I turned off the part of my brain that was concerned with the well-being of the characters when it comes to the cast."

So, let me get this straight, you have a book that you want the characters to be taken serious, but you have covers that are simply references to other literary works which remove the seriousness of the title, you are promoting some characters like "Oh, they're so cool killing machines!" and now you're saying you want to go for the most traumatic stuff possible?
Honestly? Hopeless doesn't care about these characters except for the ones he makes his favorites, which are the cosmic ones and the "New knockoff gang!" Hopeless has all the time to create new and lasting characters, and instead, he makes Kid Britain, and Deathlockette. We've gone from Avengers Academy and Runaways, which created teenage heroes based on their own merits, but instead, we're handing them off to a writer who basically is saying "I like Captain Britain! I like Deathlock! I'll make teenage versions of them! Oh, and I love Cosmic stuff, so I'll put them in her to kill off teenage characters." Again, why am I supposed to take this seriously when he's pretty much saying "I want to write Captain Britain and Cosmic Marvel."

Oh, and don't kid yourselves. Deathlockette is dead in the 2nd issue of this book. You know, make a character really sweet and likable, but then kill her? They even told us this in Comic Con with "The ending of issue two will make you want to pound Hopeless...in a good way." That's not good writing. That's manipulative writing. It's so easy to make a villain hated and a character sweet, but if your whole intention is to just scare people that the characters you like will die, then that's just a scare tactic, not good writing. But this is coming from a book that's acting like it'll be "Over the top fighting action!" and not "A sad book where these kids will be killed." Oh, might I add that Deathlockette is 14? Yeah, way to go killing younglings.

And finally, Hopeless wanted Molly Hayes for the book. MOLLY HAYES in a death arena. Do you realize how f***** sick that is? This man honestly wanted one of the more beloved child heroes to be in a book that's killed or be killed. He honestly should never have said that, because that reveals what kind of a writer he is, one that is more into sick and disturbing instead of create a story with substance. It's easy to pull the trigger. It's harder to realize what you've done, and I don't think Hopeless has the skills to do that if the covers of this book treat this all like a game.

Also, I really doubt that the epilogue will be more than "Here's the Runaways crying for a panel, here's the Academy kids crying for a panel, oh, and we don't care about the parents." This is what the ultimate F*** you the book will have. After this arena ends, we have Molly, Karolina, Victor, Khlara, Veil, Striker, White Tiger, Finesse, Hank Pym, Tigra, Mettle's Parents, Hazmat's parents, Juston's parents, Captain Britain, and many many many more characters that are related to these kids in this death match. But I bet you anything, most of them will be skimmed over and skipped. I bet that we'll have more focus with Captain America saying some speech about "Look how adults misuse kids" instead of seeing the actual ramifications. Any death in the Runaways is massive, but I don't think we'll even see the effect it'll have on the Runaways. Marvel had 2 years for Children's Crusades' ending, and we never even got Cassie Lang's Mother's reaction to her death. Skimmed over, don't care. Oh, we didn't even see what Wiccan's parents thought about his escapade in Children's Crusade or how they will deal with Scarlet Witch coming back.

And that's what this book will be. A disgusting celebration of violence and death that will fall short of all they promise and will destroy all the characters involved, either by killing them or making them cynical shell shocked victims.

Hopeless can claim "Read the book before you judge!" but this is a guy who didn't even know what the Culling was at DC. Heck, the fact that Marvel has no idea that people are really touchy about Teenage characters because they die horribly and gruesomely all the time, they really can't sell this in any form that would convince me or many other fans that it's a book that needs to be done. Hopeless is a horror writer, not a teenage hero writer. There seems to be enough evidence for that.
So in the end, all they can advertise this book as is "Swallow the pill that makes you ill, because we think mass murder is fun!"

That is all my thoughts. I'm not even going to freak out anymore, but these are the reasons why I believe this book will fall short, and be something disgusting.

P.S. Oh joy, another blonde smug hero. I bet he'll have snappy quips and act entirely like Hawkeye.
P.S.S. Hazmat is probably going to kill Deathlockette and they're going to say "See? Hazmat was evil this whole time! Hate her!"

[J/O/J/O]

He's HEEEEEEERRRRREEEEEE!!!!!!!!

[Songbird/Diamondback]

He's HEEEEEEERRRRREEEEEE!!!!!!!!

I'm past anger now. I'm in just plain disappointment. Read my post, cause those are my feelings. I'm done with this, because it's not worth my time anymore.

[J/O/J/O]

I'm past anger now. I'm in just plain disappointment. Read my post, cause those are my feelings. I'm done with this, because it's not worth my time anymore.

Yes I read your post and I resprct your opinion I am just happy to see you posting!

[Home made ectoplasm]

I'm past anger now. I'm in just plain disappointment. Read my post, cause those are my feelings. I'm done with this, because it's not worth my time anymore.

I'm glad you've decided that you are going to stop posting about it, because although I found your posts entertaining, I think being active in these discussions is making you unhappy, and serves no purpose other than to provide publicity for the book.

[doublewhiskeycokenoice]

well.......crap.

[kakitamike]

With this paying homage to battle royale, i suggest we all switch focus to the most important question. Whose filling the shoes of Mitsuko Souma?

[coconutphone]

I'm very impressed that the writer acknowledged Darkhawk would easily win if he felt like it. I was starting to believe the writer didn't know these characters or their powers.

I'm still very worried about this. The preview certainly doesn't indicate that he knows Hazmat well or her relationship with X-23.

[J/O/J/O]

With this paying homage to battle royale, i suggest we all switch focus to the most important question. Whose filling the shoes of Mitsuko Souma?

Is that the slut?

[Jakerose]

With this paying homage to battle royale, i suggest we all switch focus to the most important question. Whose filling the shoes of Mitsuko Souma?

Cammie her back story is similar to Mitsuko Souma

Is that the slut?

She is a complicated character in the Manga but she is a Slut.