CBR TV @ NYCC: David Finch Introduces "Justice League of America"

[Desaad]

I actually think Johns may bring better writing to this than he has in Justice League itself. Rather than the big seven, he's got to pick and choose a bit more, and thus has his own toys to play with. That maybe wishful thinking on my part, mind you. I DO hope we don't have constant friction in the group. I know some folks love it, but I think it is far too often overdone.

The thing is, the best thing he's writing right now is Aquaman, where he has almost complete creative freedom, and I can't say I'm liking it very much. It's fine, but still contains many fo the problem that Justice LEague does for me, the main one being decompression.

I remember when this guy was fitting all kinds of craziness into his work on JSA. It really saddens me to see almost every creator go this direction as they get more popular. I remember when Fraction was hyper condensed and crazy, when Brubaker's work was absolutely rich with character, when Millar braided all kinds of symbolism and allegory and criticism into his work at Vertigo...

This, more than anything, is why I'm so vehemently for new voices in comics. The old ones, quite simply, wear out after a while.

[Mr. Holmes]

I should probably clarify the vapid statement, because I know it to be a calculated move on his part, although I do think those kinds of superficial stories are the kind of work he prefers to do. He was embedding a lot of symbolism and allusion into his Swamp Thing run, and his Superman Adventures stuff at the very least demonstrated a solid grasp of craft, which I think has continued throughout even his worst work. He knows how to structure his work, at least, how to keep it exciting and kinetic.

Anyway, Ellis' Stormwatch was to me not much parody but a pretty straight take on the whole government institution stuff, albeit there was a critique there. It was a continuation of the kind of cyberpunk political stuff he was doing in Doom 2099.

Nextwave, on the other hand, was straight parody of all the superheroic conventions, including government organizations.

But you know, I just didn't see much critique in what Millar was doing. I suppose at some point there may have been that element embedded in the narrative, but it was more a look at celebrity culture, with superheroes as vapid and empty as modern celebrities. "Hulk eat freddie prince junior" and all that.

Ultimately (no pun intended) I really believe that it morphed into a glorification of of it, rather than a critique of it, though. Like Rorshach in Watchmen, except this time the author bought into it.

For me it felt like it saddled between parody and glorification, but yeah the Rorshcach comparison is perfect.

I think it was initially more juvenile parody more than anything else, I don't think he really had that depth in what he wanted to say about the US, mostly just that broad kind of contempt of US culture/government that you will see in British folks.

And yeah I think Stormwatch had more of the global POV versus being a US foreign policy allegory, so you had Bendix putting corrupt US officials in their place.

[Desaad]

For me it felt like it saddled between parody and glorification, but yeah the Rorshcach comparison is perfect.

I think it was initially more juvenile parody more than anything else, I don't think he really had that depth in what he wanted to say about the US, mostly just that broad kind of contempt of US culture/government that you will see in British folks.

Again, I really feel it had more to do with celebrity than it did the US Government. There was a little bit of critique of the old school nostalgia, but that's not about the government, that's about culture in general. I think if he was trying to do anything, at the start, it was a purposeful reformulation of these characters into the kind of people that are popular today (or were popular in the 90s/2000s). The Paris Hilton set.

But then everyone loved it, loved the characters for who they were, and he liked the success so that part of it was dropped.

And yeah I think Stormwatch had more of the global POV versus being a US foreign policy allegory, so you had Bendix putting corrupt US officials in their place.

I don't think that was parody or critique, though. I think it was an earnest effort to do that type of book and deal with the complexities of a superteam in a political situation. It was liek West Wing means X Men.

Authority was definitely a piss take on superheroes, and Nextwave was the next evolution of that.

And Thunderbolts was a different kind of parody all together.

[Mr. Holmes]

Again, I really feel it had more to do with celebrity than it did the US Government. There was a little bit of critique of the old school nostalgia, but that's not about the government, that's about culture in general. I think if he was trying to do anything, at the start, it was a purposeful reformulation of these characters into the kind of people that are popular today (or were popular in the 90s/2000s). The Paris Hilton set.

But then everyone loved it, loved the characters for who they were, and he liked the success so that part of it was dropped.

Yeah I agree, I should have clarified. Sort of a contempt of US pop culture as well as (or more so than) the foreign policy thing.

[Den]

The thing is, the best thing he's writing right now is Aquaman, where he has almost complete creative freedom, and I can't say I'm liking it very much. It's fine, but still contains many fo the problem that Justice LEague does for me, the main one being decompression.

I remember when this guy was fitting all kinds of craziness into his work on JSA. It really saddens me to see almost every creator go this direction as they get more popular. I remember when Fraction was hyper condensed and crazy, when Brubaker's work was absolutely rich with character, when Millar braided all kinds of symbolism and allegory and criticism into his work at Vertigo...

This, more than anything, is why I'm so vehemently for new voices in comics. The old ones, quite simply, wear out after a while.

I agree Aquaman has been his best stuff in the new 52, and I still enjoy it a LOT (Perhaps more than you, from the sound of it). I found the Others an interesting team etc. That's part of what gives me hope for the Justice League of America. Johns seems to want to stretch , the more of the character he needs to fill in, the happier he is (I could be totally misreading him) so I think this might become his new 'best' book.

*knock on wood*

[Desaad]

For sure, if I enjoyed Aquaman more I might have more hope.

For me it's just okay.

[Mr. Holmes]

The first arc, Trench I thought was really mediocre. The Others was kind of cool, but again really decompressed. I'm probably going to read Throne of Atlantis and be done with both books.

[Desaad]

Yup. "The Others" is as good as it gets with Johns right now, and it was fine but not brilliant.

And now, I guarantee, the next 10-15 issues will revolve around the artifacts from that arc.

[RadioActiveLunch]

He looks like a comic book villain.

[Alex6166]

Haha, what clever? A vapid writer writing about vapid people, an ineffectual government, ultra violent heroes....I don't see a lot of real allegory there, not anymore than the small amount Johns puts into his work.

He'll be necessarily restrained by in continuity circumstance, but I think we'll probably get something similar.

Johnns is way better than Millar. I'm not even a DC guy and I enjoyed his Green Lantern stuff that I have read a lot more. Millar has a lot of talent, but sometimes he'll introduce a concept, but not be able to pay it off. Civil War was the biggest thing that he ever did and it still seems like a disasater is some ways. The second issue was the worst because you knew that it was a 'put on', that they wouldn't do anything with it. Your still of kind of waiting for stuff to be explained or paid off years later. I'm not even mentioning the fact that it didn't come out on time at all after the 3rd issue. David Finch, here, put out New Avengers stuff on a much better schedule. I think it was delayed it a little bit, but he did a great job. I was looking at the Disassembled stuff yesterday and it looked fantastic. He's the guy for this job.